Episode 17 – nqz Interview & Austin Major Play-Offs Deep Dive

James: What's going on, everyone?

James: It's all about Counter-Strike, turned into All About NQZ, the AWPer from paIN, we got him here with us.

James: Thank you very much for joining my man.

Lucas: My pleasure.

James: It's good to have you with us.

James: Devilwalk's online.

James: I'm going to do this, I always do this at the beginning NQZ.

James: So right now for me, it is 8:30 PM on Tuesday, the 17th of June, which means it's actually Wednesday, the 18th of June for Devilwalk at 3.30 in the morning in Sweden, because we're all over the world right now.

James: And it's crazy because always we look at Devilwalk's background on his camera, and it's so bright outside.

James: He's like this all the time.

James: In Sweden, there's no darkness right now.

Jonatan: There's no darkness.

Lucas: There's no night in Sweden.

James: No, no, bro.

James: He's just living like this.

James: You bought blackout curtains recently, right?

Jonatan: No, not recently.

Jonatan: I always had in my bedroom, but I bought extra curtains for my balcony.

James: The balcony.

James: That was it.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: And put them up.

Jonatan: But yeah, it's pretty much daylight right now.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: Outside.

James: Now, you know what me and NQZ have been doing.

James: NQZ has been qualifying for his first ever major playoffs.

James: I've been just hosting, enjoying life, enjoying Austin.

James: But I'll tell you a fun fact.

James: This man, he was just competing at Atlanta as well.

James: He was just competing again.

James: Yeah, he was just, it was Glitch Masters in Sweden.

James: And he was still playing.

James: He brought a little mixed team together.

James: So we got to ask you about this Devilwalk, because first of all, like Nip didn't do well at this event again.

Lucas: Oh, Nip played this event?

Lucas: Yeah, bro.

James: Yeah, we can bring it up.

Jonatan: Naptic, NIP, Passions, there was Sangull was there.

James: I'm bringing it up on my iPad for NQZ to be able to see.

James: Because you know they're desperate for VRS points, you know?

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: Who's a VRS?

Jonatan: Well, no, I didn't qualify for the main tournament.

Jonatan: I went to the biog with Mike Lele.

Jonatan: So and three young Swedish kids.

James: Bring your own computer.

James: It's like old school way of doing it.

James: So he traveled down.

Lucas: Yeah, Rick's told me about that.

Lucas: Yeah, yeah, Rick's from the computer and all that stuff, right?

James: Exactly.

Jonatan: But we, you know, we went, didn't go that route.

Jonatan: We actually got PCs from like the tournament itself and lent it for for the bring your own computer, qualify for a day.

Jonatan: So, I mean, it went pretty good.

Jonatan: I think considering the team we had and we didn't like, we barely practice.

Jonatan: We practiced a couple of days for it.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: So we had like maybe maximum like two rounds on each map.

Jonatan: Like one on T and one on CT and just played around it.

Jonatan: But we did get actually managed to, we played Sangal in our last game, which was the one that if we won it, we would have qualified for the main tournament.

Jonatan: We lost 16-6 or 13-6.

Jonatan: I always say 16.

Jonatan: It's like ingrained in my brain.

James: Old memory.

Lucas: Yeah, old memory.

Jonatan: Yes.

Jonatan: But like 13-6 on Train we lost.

Jonatan: Having like a 6-3 lead on T side Train.

Jonatan: And then we lost a new 13-10 against Sangal.

Jonatan: So I'm pretty happy about that.

Jonatan: That's still like a professional.

Lucas: That's really good.

Lucas: Considering Sangal is a really difficult team to play against.

James: You practice against them?

Lucas: Yeah, we used to practice against them.

Lucas: It's like deathmatch, you know?

Lucas: The rounds, they are over in 1m30.

James: Really?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: They play so fast.

Lucas: The old line up, I don't know the new one, but they have to be playing like this still.

Lucas: So yeah.

Jonatan: Yeah, I mean, they played similar.

Jonatan: But yeah, it felt good.

Jonatan: I had the first game, I was absolute trash.

Jonatan: I was like, what the hell?

Jonatan: What is happening?

Jonatan: It was like, you know, but even though you're experienced, when so long ago you play the LAN game, you still get some nerves and you still get some jitters, but you can adjust to it more quickly, you know?

Jonatan: It's like the first game over, then we were back on track, you know?

Jonatan: So it was really fun, really, really fun.

James: But I heard very good things about the event in general, like from other people saying how the event was put together really well.

James: Pretty good prize pool.

James: I know like they had some big teams there anyway, but for a small event that's just rocking a LAN event, it's like, this is a good list of teams.

James: This is a really good list of teams.

Lucas: Fnatic, NIP, Passion Ukraine, Ecstatic9.

Lucas: Yep.

Lucas: A lot of good teams.

Lucas: So yeah, it's impressive.

Jonatan: It was a fun event.

Jonatan: I think they didn't really market it that much, like even in Sweden, because I remember like old Dreamhacks and stuff like that, you like kind of travel through the city and there was like posters and signs everywhere about it.

James: But that's a huge company in comparison to like, this is something new, right?

Lucas: Yeah.

Jonatan: But it's the old like Dreamhack owner gangs.

Jonatan: So I think they just, you know, they tried it out for a year and then, but I heard they're going to do it for four more years.

Jonatan: They got a contract at least.

Jonatan: So they're going to do the summer part, yeah, for another four years.

Jonatan: So we'll see if I can go there and practice a little bit more and maybe...

James: Yeah, make it to the main tournament, man.

James: Get back on HLTV stats.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: All right, from there, we don't have to touch emotion.

James: That does sound like that was a good event.

James: Passion, UA, the Ukrainian boys, even with TC, the old Complexity coach is coaching them.

James: So they...

Lucas: He's coaching.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And they don't...

James: They speak Ukrainian in game or Ukrainian Russian in game.

James: And then he doesn't speak any of that.

James: And he just coaches in English.

Lucas: He's got to be absolutely lost.

James: Exactly.

James: There's no way...

James: Even if he's duolingo learning, he's not...

Lucas: You can't learn Ukrainian slash Russian in one month.

James: Nope.

James: Not happening.

Jonatan: No, no, no.

James: But I want to get your opinion just on a couple more points before we get into all about NQZ, because Valve removed the MRQs.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: For me, it's the second mistake they're making.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Because the first one, removing RMRs, for me, they removed one of the best tournaments of the year.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Because I don't know about the Europe scene, but in South America, everybody wanted to be able to play RMR and qualify to the RMR.

Lucas: And during the RMR, I remember all the time feeling that emotion of, for example, MIBR, Imperial, we have good friends there.

Lucas: But we all stared at each other like, right now we are not friends.

Lucas: And we all wanted to play these matches.

Lucas: And the feeling that you got when you qualified for the major through the RMR, it's a feeling like you weren't, you know.

Lucas: Not that you don't earn it by the points, but being able to play a tournament that gives you actually this spot for the major was something really cool.

Lucas: And also that stuff bringing up a good point, the first major that I qualified for, the real one.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: The major was in Rio, but we went all the way to Sweden to play the MR So for me, I was really young and traveling to a new country, playing a tournament.

Lucas: This amount of pressure in you was really, really good.

Lucas: So I think this was the first mistake in all the MR kills.

Lucas: I feel like you lost all the chances that like small teams have to go to the Majors.

James: And also, so we spoke about this on previous.

James: So we had Ash, the coach of Game Legion join us for an episode before.

James: And we were saying how, you know, how the MRQs were online.

James: Yeah, there was no hype.

James: There was no passion.

James: So people obviously can potentially cheat online compared to what they do in a land environment right on an RMR.

James: And it felt like we removed the RMRs.

James: And I understand so many people complained publicly on podcasts on everything that taking the RMRs away and putting MRQs online was bad.

James: But I don't think the correct response is then remove the MRQs.

James: For me, it was just like, Valve, you have so much money from the game, from opening cases, just take a little bit of that budget and force the tournament organizer to do the MRQs on LAN.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: Because you had a good point.

Lucas: You can talk, sorry.

Jonatan: No, I mean, I think the biggest thing is, you know, I think even with the MRQs, you kind of killed the hype for it.

Jonatan: You kill the emotions.

Jonatan: You don't see people like when you qualified for Rio, like see the emotions in people and kind of get to know the people who are actually qualifying for the major.

Jonatan: Now, it's like they made a shitty replacement, and now they just killed everything.

Jonatan: Because, I mean, even this shitty replacement, to some degree is better seeing the teams themselves, videotape themselves qualifying for a major.

Jonatan: And now it's just like kind of a ladder point system to directly qualify to the major.

Jonatan: It just feels weird.

Jonatan: Because, as you say, like, it was probably one of the most fun tournaments the entire year to watch.

Jonatan: Even other tier one tournaments, I would probably rather watch an RMR than like an actual tier one event that wasn't the major.

Jonatan: Because there was so much about it.

Jonatan: Like, you saw new teams, how they're gonna challenge each other.

Jonatan: There was always upsets.

Jonatan: Nothing was for certain for anyone.

Jonatan: You could see big teams being super nervous and feeling a lot of pressure in the RMRs.

Jonatan: Even more pressure compared to even being in the major.

Jonatan: So I think it was a special tournament and it's really sad to see it gone.

Lucas: Yeah, you brought a perfect point.

Lucas: And also, other than the fact that the big teams sometimes struggle in RMR, you have like small teams going really, really well.

Lucas: I remember like last year 3D Marks was not as good as they are today.

Lucas: And they went 3-0 in the Euro RMRs, so everyone was like, what happened?

Lucas: Not that they don't play well, but it's a really surprise.

Lucas: And also, simple with Falcons not qualifying.

Lucas: So it was a pure of the year that everyone wanted to watch and hype the tournament up.

Lucas: And a lot of good stories, a lot of happy stories, and also a lot of sad stories.

Lucas: So it was a really, really important tournament of the year and they removed it.

Lucas: So for me, it's nonsense.

James: It sucks.

James: It really sucks.

James: I hope that it's just a knee-jerk reaction from Valve, that they've just made a quick decision.

James: And that then when we come into the Major after Budapest, which should be Cologne, then there'll be another change of like how they want to think about it.

James: I'm guessing because if you think Budapest actually is going to happen so quickly, where we have player break and how quickly the rest of this year will go, maybe this is their way.

James: It's just in my mind of like, okay, we'll do a quick fix and then we'll wait and see what happens after that.

Lucas: Let's see what happens next year.

James: Hopefully.

Lucas: Yeah, but the thing for me is, at a certain point, it's kind of fair that you have a team playing well all the year and because of that, they went to the Major.

Lucas: It's okay, it's a good point.

Lucas: But at the same time, it was funny to see a team going well all the year.

Lucas: Not funny, but it was curious to see a team going out well all the year and they landed to the IronWire.

Lucas: It's the most pressure where you have to do the develop and you have to show up.

Lucas: And sometimes they didn't show up.

Lucas: So yeah, it was a good tournament and let's see what they do.

James: Let's see what happens in the future.

James: Another thing to get your thoughts on as well is, this was only announced today, I think, DevilWalk, right?

James: And it's the ESL DreamHack Knockout.

James: And it says, this is from the press release, DreamHack Atlanta 2025 and DreamHack Stockholm 2025, will offer an open, in-person and direct pathway for every CounterStrike 2 player, whether casual or pro, to earn a spot in the world's biggest CS2 league, the only CS2 league going on right now, really, if you think of the top level, ESL Pro League.

James: So, you know, 32 teams at DreamHack Atlanta, 128 teams in Stockholm.

James: This will be the bring your own computer thing again, where they can even get through to do it, yeah?

James: And that means we've got some open qualifiers with spots.

James: So, say you don't, say you're just outside the invites for ESL Pro League, you go to one of these two events and grind your way through.

Lucas: Yeah, this is really cool.

Lucas: And as I said, it's a good shot for smaller teams and people that are starting right now or playing for a bit, but not in that spotlight, to have a good chance to enter a huge tournament that is Pro League.

Lucas: So, I think this is a point that made it well.

James: And I heard, this is just not 100% confirmation from anywhere, but I heard in 2026, there will be more open qualifiers for teams to qualify to the bigger events.

Lucas: Yeah, it has to be, right?

Lucas: Because removing our mark in our Qs, you can't go to the Major.

Lucas: You can't have the spots.

James: You can't get points.

Lucas: Yeah, you can't get points.

Lucas: So, people are going to start to play every tournament they can to earn points and this part is good.

James: You're going to enter this Stockholm one?

Jonatan: Honestly, why not?

Jonatan: I mean, I'm on the path right now with Michael Levin.

Jonatan: No, but I think this is exactly what Counter-Strike needs.

Jonatan: I think it's one of those things like getting more people engaged, getting more people to even, you know, how otherwise are you going to test your abilities or even have a trial run, even if you're not good and you're not expecting yourself to get into and get the slot.

Jonatan: Just participating in a local tournament or it's something that I think everyone has grown up with to some degree that's been a part of the eSports world.

Jonatan: So I think having this, having the pressure, even playing against bigger teams like the NIPs or Fnatic kind of show up and you get smashed by them.

Jonatan: These are still like memories that people hold, you know, as a young person getting into the business and something.

Jonatan: Yeah, so I think this is perfect.

Jonatan: I think this is like, I was surprised when I saw it and I was like, damn, this is really nice.

Jonatan: This is super cool.

James: It's funny, though, you're going to go to this DreamHack, qualify on LAN and then play the first stage of ESL Pro League online, which is the only part of this whole thing that they recently took ESL Pro League.

Lucas: But they made it the first stage of Pro League online.

James: First stage of Pro League online.

James: And then when you qualify to playoffs, it's on LAN, like in a better situation.

James: I don't know the full details of it, but like, bro, you can't make them qualify LAN, play online and then go to LAN if they make playoffs.

Lucas: I'm not really a fan of the online tournaments.

James: No.

Lucas: That's because last year we played a lot of online tournaments, it's way better to play online.

James: Yes, exactly.

Lucas: 10 times better.

James: I know it costs more money and I know people struggle.

James: I'm not going to say like ESL has done bad because everyone is trying to save money now.

James: Teams, organizations, Valve itself, everyone is trying to be a bit smarter.

James: But it's also like you've got the Premier League of Counter-Strike and then you will play in the first part.

James: But I guarantee you that pro league, the first one online is going to have some of those very top teams.

James: They will be on a boot camp somewhere, they will be trying to play their best, but someone is going to fail massively because it's online and it's not like what they're used to.

Lucas: To have all that connections to having to choose in which server you're going to play.

James: There's no admin with them to help them when someone goes wrong, they got to do it themselves.

Jonatan: But I think honestly as well, like for some of these teams, I always thought it was almost worse playing in a boot camp environment online than any other place.

Jonatan: Really?

Jonatan: Yeah, it is because imagine like in a boot camp, you're going to have everyone yelling and screaming and shouting info, mic settings not going to be perfect and stuff like that, comparably to like sitting online.

Jonatan: You do get a better feeling and it's easier to learn and take in information than you're living and breathing Counter-Strike.

Jonatan: But I think for an actual match setting, boot camp isn't optimal at all.

Lucas: Yeah, and that happened with us last year.

Lucas: Yeah, we were in a freaking like 30 game win on Brazil's streak and we were always playing at home, each person at his own home.

James: Okay.

Lucas: And we went to the pain office and we lost our first match.

Lucas: No.

Lucas: So for us, it happened like this.

Lucas: It was better for us to everyone to stay at your home and play with your own settings, your chair, your desk.

Lucas: So it has a good point.

James: Is that why Big Azzero is always telling me you guys like to go home for a little bit, practice online at home for a bit before you come to Europe?

Lucas: Because to stay at home is really good.

Lucas: You are at your place, at your bedroom.

Lucas: So yeah.

James: Family, friends, they buy stuff.

Lucas: You feel like home.

James: So rest and recharge.

Lucas: For some teams and also for others, it was better to play at home.

James: All right.

James: Well, that's all the key points of the news we need to go over.

James: Now we're going to get into a bit of the major into you because, bro, this is the stage three results we're going to review with you.

James: And you make it through 3-2, but the most impressive thing here is you were 0-2.

James: Your first day was really bad.

James: Like it was hard teams to go up against.

James: We did not play.

James: But it's like you played, what, Spirit first, right?

Lucas: Played Spirit.

Lucas: Actually, Spirit played with us, so we didn't play with them.

Lucas: And also G2, we were completely right, so pretty shit at the first day for us.

James: And honestly, you should have been able to beat G2, like looking at it, right?

Lucas: Before the match, we were really confident we can beat them.

James: I was confident.

James: I'm like, okay, this is a G2, which is like a dead team, you know, it's going to make changes after the Major, so.

James: There's going to be no problem.

James: You guys are warmed up from the other stage.

James: You guys knew what was happening.

James: And then I was like, oh no, something's going wrong with paIN.

James: This is not what I expected.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: They actually played really well.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: They were playing solid chairs.

Lucas: I thought for a moment they would be able to fight to the next stage.

Lucas: They could have.

James: They definitely could have.

Lucas: After the Mongols game, I said for them, but they were playing really good, so.

James: But you guys, right, let's just, let's first talk about the paIN run, because you got all the results there, who they played?

Jonatan: Not all of them, no.

Jonatan: Let me get it all.

James: Let me get it all here.

James: Because the thing is for you guys, right, I know the run you had looks crazy, especially because it was 0-2, but you didn't really have easy games, bro.

James: You didn't have any easy games.

James: So look at this run.

James: You faced SpiritG2, then Namiga, it is a fighty team.

James: Then you take down 3D Max, and you had that insane comeback.

James: You should have lost one map at least against 3D Max.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: The thing is about the 3D Max game, we practiced against them on Inferno.

James: Okay.

Lucas: We were completely wrecked.

Lucas: So we knew they were going to pick Inferno.

Lucas: We tried to prep for it, but being honest, before the match, I was like, it's going to be tough.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: This one is going to be tough, and we have to play really well to win.

Lucas: And whenever we managed to win Inferno, I was like, yeah, now maybe they're screwed, because nukes are pretty comfortable for us.

Lucas: And of course, we lost pretty bad sometimes, but nukes are a map that everyone likes.

Lucas: Bigoo likes to call it.

Lucas: I like to play with the AWP and all the team likes to play.

Lucas: But it started all wrong.

Lucas: We started like 3-0, and we were like 5-3 situation.

Lucas: And this is, for me, is like the rounds when whenever you win a 3-0 in the way that we were winning, you practically go to a 5-0.

Lucas: And their minds are completely lost.

Lucas: But whenever we lost the 3v5, they bounced back.

Lucas: I think the game turned like 9-3.

Lucas: So it was a really tough game for us.

Lucas: I think we lost the piece on CT side also, and they were playing really good.

Lucas: Props to Maka also because he's a really annoying guy to play against.

Lucas: Because he's AWPer, but he's too aggressive and also I think by the fact he's the IGL.

Lucas: So he's 6 for a lot of info.

Lucas: And that's normal for IGL, but since he got the AWP, it's really annoying to predict his moves.

Lucas: But we managed to come back.

Lucas: And the thing is, can you open the match?

Lucas: For me to see something real quick.

Jonatan: You started 3-0 on the T side, and it was the new 4-1.5.

Lucas: Yeah, and that's the point because we knew after Nuke we were going to play Ancient if we lost Nuke.

Lucas: We practiced Ancient, we are...

Lucas: I will not say pretty good, but we are playing it solid, but we are not that confident to play Ancient against them.

Lucas: So I think, of my mind and all the teams' minds during the Nuke, is we have to win this match because we are on CT side Nuke.

Lucas: It's a side that we like to play, and it's going to be tough, but we cannot let ourselves not believe in it.

Lucas: And I think, I don't know if everyone feels like that, but for me, whenever we are losing like 11-4, 12-4, I'm not thinking about winning the match specifically, I'm just thinking about winning round by round, round by round, round by round.

Lucas: Whenever we get close to tying the match or winning the match, the focus is the same.

Lucas: So I think this is a thing that helped us to make the comeback.

Lucas: And also, the game is completely...

Lucas: Can I say, it was madness against 3DMax, because they play so fast and also we play fast.

Jonatan: Also, you had probably the worst mental start to that second half you can have, right?

Jonatan: Because you win the pistol, you get denied and they start converting on that T side.

Jonatan: Like, how is it for you guys?

Jonatan: I mean, you're a pretty new team, but you all know each other.

Jonatan: You played in the past with some of these guys.

Jonatan: Who is it that kind of grabs a hold of everyone and like, okay, put some belief into this?

Jonatan: Because having an 11-5, you know, you don't have the economy in order.

Jonatan: You know that losing one round, it's pretty much over at this point.

Jonatan: Who is the guy that kind of brings you all back?

Lucas: I think I have to say Snow.

Lucas: He knows it well, but every time that we win like one round, he's screaming and shouting and saying for us to believe.

Lucas: I think everyone believes that we can come back, but as you said, we lost some pretty bad rounds.

Lucas: I think the second round, we lost a 1v3 for exercise.

Lucas: So it's hard to keep the mindset in the right place in that time.

Lucas: But he's a guy that helps us a lot with his energy.

Lucas: He's always shouting, screaming and hyping everyone.

Lucas: So whenever I make a good play, he says, thank you, nice play, be a good play.

James: Okay, so this is interesting.

James: This is why I want to ask then about Snow, because we only see, caralho, bobo.

James: We don't hear the rest.

James: So people said that with Snow, everyone wanted him.

James: So many teams wanted to sign him.

James: Wildcard wanted to sign him.

James: You guys want to sign him.

James: There was like a battle for him.

James: Honestly, he's not been as hyped, like as in stat-wise, as what I was expecting him to be, if I'm being fair.

James: But when you say this, there's something he's adding more than just him showing.

James: Like he's positive to you guys.

Lucas: Yeah, he's positive to us.

Lucas: And that's the thing.

James: Even when he's playing bad.

Lucas: Even when he's playing bad.

Lucas: That's the most impressive thing for me because...

Lucas: And he's a kid still.

James: He's still a kid.

Lucas: He's just turned 18.

Lucas: But even when he's having a shit game, he's always shouting, he's always screaming.

Lucas: And that thing is for me is one of the most important things that whenever you make a good play, a good flash or whatever, he makes sure that you know that you make a good first stuff.

Lucas: So this is really important for me.

Lucas: And as you said, he was pretty hyped up last year.

Lucas: But bringing his note to the team was a thing that Bighu wanted.

Lucas: But back in the time, I told him, don't you think it's risky because it's no use to do completely different bros when he was hyped in Brazil.

Lucas: And he was coming to a thing that used to play a different level, different tournaments, because he was playing local tournaments in Brazil.

Lucas: And all of a sudden we threw a high-end cologne.

Lucas: And also, other than that, he was...

James: I think I did his first English interview as well.

Lucas: Yeah, and he blew blood.

James: Yeah, dude, he did a hell of a lot.

Lucas: But he used to play as an entry fragger, a playmaker.

Lucas: And we all of a sudden threw him a solo bomb and lurker.

Lucas: So it's normal for him to struggle to adapt, and also adapting to role positions, role changes, and also a different tier of level in the tournaments.

Lucas: So I think for me it's natural.

Lucas: I don't see any of his stats because he contributes to the team with way more things than fragging.

Lucas: But he also frags well.

Lucas: He also has a good aim.

Lucas: But it's a mixture of all good things.

Lucas: I have nothing bad to say about Snow.

Lucas: So I think whenever people say bad things about him, they are really unfair with him because he has a lot more impact than numbers will show.

James: Yeah, because I'd say like, I don't think I see bad in him.

James: I just see like when people hyped up all that potential in him, he obviously now is in a position where he can't show as much of that potential.

James: But also, it's like I still want to see some moments from him where I'm like, okay, that's why, you know?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: And so it's good to know that he's also helping despite his young age in a different way than even what I know.

James: Because all I see is the screaming and shouting.

James: I don't know about these other little conversations.

James: We don't hear that.

Jonatan: I think you had a really good start of the year with you guys.

Jonatan: Like early days, I was into being a snow fan.

Jonatan: When you just started the year out, I think you looked like the most exciting team to watch personally.

Jonatan: For me, I think we talked about it several times.

James: You said it.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: PaIN looked amazing on the eye test.

Jonatan: You guys were, I don't know, I always explained it a little bit like you were like a virtuous plow back in the days.

Jonatan: They used to be like super, they could be super slow or super quick.

Jonatan: But when you guys were slow, once the action actually started, everything was chaos, you know, like you created so much pressure on the opponents that they just broke apart.

Jonatan: And that's how I kind of felt like the early pain of this year played.

Jonatan: And then you kind of lost the groove a little bit towards the middle.

Jonatan: But it was super exciting to watch.

Lucas: Yeah, we started the year good, but due to all of the misfortunes we had to make a change on Cowboys and play with stand-ins, play with coach.

Lucas: So I think we lost a lot of momentum there.

Lucas: We started the year beating phase, we played the blast, we played the other tournament we played.

Lucas: It was only the blast.

James: You did blast into Katowice?

Lucas: Oh, Cluj-Napoca.

James: Cluj-Napoca, we went to the playoffs.

James: Your first playoffs?

Lucas: Yeah, we started really good, but I think everyone felt a lot, the fact that we didn't have a fifth player and also people being not able to travel with us.

Lucas: Everyone was really sad at the moment.

Lucas: I remember being in Melbourne with David and he was like, me and him all the day in the bed, was like, bro, when this is gonna end?

James: When we're gonna get some stability.

Lucas: Yeah, so we went almost to the rock bottom, but we knew that at some point, things will have to get better.

Lucas: We know that everyone in paIN staff and all the players would do their best to be able to come back to that good start of the year.

Lucas: But yeah, as you said, we started the year pretty good.

Lucas: We were playing some good CS, but not consistently, I will say, because as you said, we have to play a little bit fast sometimes, a little bit slow sometimes, but we are not being able to find that balance and knowing when to play fast, knowing when to play slow, and I think that's the, I would not say the most important thing, but one of the most important things to being able to beat those Tier 1 teams.

Lucas: So yeah.

James: Well, we'll get on to more of like this year a little bit later.

James: We'll finish off this major conversation because you're qualifying game.

Jonatan: Oh my God.

Lucas: This one was a rough one.

James: Dude, this was VP going from 2-0 on the opening day, you going from 0-2.

James: Mirage was really solid, yeah?

James: Mirage, you had them.

James: And then Inferno, I said it's you on the desk, right?

James: By the way, Devilwalk, if you looked, his opening stats for like just this stage was through the roof.

James: Like at one point you had 38 to like 18 in opening duel one, which is massive numbers.

James: And you didn't even realize kind of what you were doing.

James: You were the highest rated player for the team as well.

James: I think you still ended the stage as the highest rated player for the team.

James: But this Inferno, all those plays you like to make it be, everything you were trying to do, obviously you didn't have economy, so you weren't also buying the AWP as much.

James: But you guys were getting shut down every time completely.

James: But then, I guess, how did it feel for you on looking at, you've had that rough Inferno game, and then you have to come back on a Dust 2, which obviously you can't do well on, but it's also a great map for them.

James: And you also know them on it, and you lost them already on this map before.

Lucas: Yeah, so for me, whenever Inferno ended, I realized that I played Mirage in a way, and Inferno in the other way.

Lucas: I think that the reason that I played bad on Inferno, props to VP, they played really well, but I think that I struggle a lot with the mental side of things, because I was thinking other stuff other than the match and what I want to do.

Lucas: Of course, as you said, game stuff, it's always happening to be bothering, because I didn't have the open CT side, for example.

Jonatan: I mean, it's not a great map for open, if we're going to be completely honest.

Lucas: Yeah, it's a tough map for the open, of course, but I think during Inferno, I couldn't land a shot, and whenever I had the chance to land those shots, I was not feeling comfortable, not thinking straight about the game.

Lucas: So whenever Inferno ended, I was just thinking, okay, one map is not going to define the good major run I'm doing, and all the major runs we are doing with the boys.

Lucas: So one last map is going to define if you go through or if you go home, and I didn't want to go home in that way, because I felt like I let down my teammates on Inferno, and not only because I did not frag, but being present for them, hyping them up and cheering for the rounds is the thing that I've done in Mirage, and I think it's a good reason why I played so well in Mirage.

Lucas: So I just started to do still thinking, it doesn't matter if I'm going to kill two or 30, but I have to be present, I have to be here for my team and I have to let them know that I'm here.

Lucas: I'm not giving up, it's not because we lost a map, a map that we didn't even play well, that it's going to be the end of the Major for us, and I felt in that moment that we started to play those two, that everyone wanted to win so bad, because we have never been that close to go into a playoff.

Lucas: You take, for example, David and EGT, this is their first Legend stage ever.

James: Yeah, so you went 1-3 at the previous Legend stage.

Lucas: Yeah, we went 1-3 in Shanghai and 2-2 in Copenhagen, but being honest, in Copenhagen, we faced Na'Vi and they were better all the match.

Lucas: We had chances, but they were better.

James: Well, that's why I gave Biggizera's mouse, my mouse.

Jonatan: Yeah, I have a question.

Lucas: This match for, yeah, do it.

Jonatan: So like going into this kinds of games now in this Legend stage, knowing like all the stuff in the past, you didn't have that much time to get the team ready for this major.

Jonatan: Do you feel like you're going into these games with less pressure than what you would normally have?

Jonatan: Do you feel like it's easier to kind of, okay, we've done really well, maybe even overperformed to some degree.

Jonatan: So going into, however it ends, it's still a really, really good run.

Jonatan: Like, do you feel that in the game or do you still feel this like massive pressure that we have to like represent the region in some sense?

Lucas: Being honest, I don't feel like we were in pressure because as I said in the first interview of the Major, due to the results that we have throughout the year, people were not expecting shit from us.

Lucas: So we were not under pressure.

Lucas: And I think from one side, that was a thing that helped us and it's pretty good to play with no pressure on you.

Lucas: But at the same time, I think that, and I know that everyone in the team didn't want to go to the stage tree, the old tree, and like, okay, that's a good run, nice try.

Lucas: Everyone knows that we can do better and we can go further.

Lucas: And we deserve the chance to be at the playoffs.

Lucas: So of course, whenever you lose, people are going to say, okay, nice try, good run.

Lucas: Yeah, but we all knew as players and Riggs as coach that we can go further and we have all the capability to go further.

Lucas: And the first day of Major did not define us as a team.

Lucas: So we were not under pressure, but we worked really hard to go further.

Jonatan: All right, cool.

James: That was super impressive, super impressive.

James: And obviously the win for you guys, right, against VP, it's a huge one because it looked like you were gonna throw.

James: You had all the momentum in the first half and then you come on to it with a lesser buy, lesser weapons.

James: Other stuff hadn't been working.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: You got a bit, I'm not saying lucky, but a bit lucky with just how that round played out, you know, where they can't be right at the last part.

Lucas: Yeah, they can be.

James: Yeah, they can be.

James: I think it was someone at MP9 on top of the box.

Lucas: It was David with the MP9, Vigou passed the smoke.

Lucas: And also I told him, Vigou, thank you for being alive this round, because I think anyone in the team, except from him, will make that play.

Lucas: Yeah, not in that stress and not in that stress.

Lucas: I'm saying that because I would not do it.

Lucas: I wouldn't do it.

James: Was the confidence going lower at that point?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Yeah, you were right.

James: Because you guys destroyed them and their mentors broken.

James: And I honestly was looking at this like I'm worried for you guys, because if it went to overtime, I'm going to say this is your friend, I think you might have lost because they had the momentum and the mentality.

James: I know you guys were trying to have that hype and everything.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: But it was getting scary at this point.

Lucas: Competition stuff.

Lucas: But this is a curious fact that I will tell you.

Lucas: In the early morning of that day, when Legacy lost, we all felt painful for Legacy because the way the loss was freaking sad.

Lucas: But we were having lunch with Fallen and the guys from Furia.

Lucas: And we were discussing exactly this, because he was saying to us that whenever you get to this spot, like 12-5, 12-4, a match away from the playoffs, it's impossible to your mind not think about, I'm there, I'm going to be there.

Lucas: It takes me like one minute to be there, you know?

Lucas: So I feel like everyone felt that whenever we were 12-5, 12-6, 12-7, 12-8, like we are getting close to losing this spot.

Lucas: So it's impossible not to think about it.

Lucas: But I think at some point, you just have to, okay, I'm going to stack the pressure and play with the pressure because if you get stuck on this type of thoughts and feelings, you will end up losing.

Lucas: So I remember that he told me during the match.

Lucas: I was like, screw it.

Lucas: Yeah, you're going to win this year.

James: That was Fulham, right?

Lucas: Yeah, that was Fulham.

Jonatan: It's a really tough situation to be in because I think you get into this situation as a player where I don't want to be the guy that makes the mistake.

Jonatan: I don't want to be the person that fucks up, you know, and that's everything.

Jonatan: And it makes you play so much worse because you're like falling back, letting them take all the space.

Jonatan: They're just running the show.

Lucas: You're playing not to lose.

Jonatan: Yeah, exactly.

Jonatan: And it's like the worst way to play Counter-Strike.

James: That's what Devilwalk tells me not to do in our Phaser games.

James: When we're playing Phaser together, I'm having a bad game, I don't talk, I'm sat back just trying like, must just hold my position and I'm not making the same moves I want to make.

Lucas: Yeah, this was exactly what happened with me in Inferno against VP.

Lucas: I was playing not to win, but not to lose, you know.

Lucas: I don't want to be the guy who's going to be the first one to die.

James: It's so real.

Lucas: It's going to be the first one to make a mistake.

Lucas: So it's the worst way to play and probably will get you a lose.

Lucas: So yeah, it's tough, competition stuff.

James: It really is.

James: I'm just having it in my face again.

James: You're doing it for a living.

James: This is your whole job.

James: But you did it.

James: Yeah, you got through it.

James: And do you know what was crazy?

James: I said to you guys on the desk, there was times across the whole series where you or Biggie would stand up.

James: Yeah.

James: And then what would happen was, and you got to remember electronic is very like stone cold, but he'll take that shit personally.

James: So they're standing up their walk and they're like getting hyped up and ready.

James: And then I'm looking across and it's like almost every time the next round, they would win.

James: It's like you gave him fuel.

James: You were giving him fire, man.

James: He was coming back.

Lucas: There are some certain players that you can shout at them because you're going to give them fuel.

James: Yeah, like because he wasn't shouting.

James: He was just shouting normally, but he wasn't shouting directly at you guys.

James: Flammus was more doing that to you guys.

James: Electronic was sat there taking your shit and then being like, okay, wait for me.

James: Okay, wait for me.

James: Oh man.

Lucas: Yeah, but yeah, it was a cool moment.

Lucas: Whenever we played those matches, they are really hyped up.

Lucas: And the other team is shouting at us and we are shouting at them.

Lucas: And it's a really cool match to play because it's all inside the server.

Lucas: Because outside the server, I have a tiny chat with the guys from VP and they seem to be pretty cool, all of them.

Lucas: So it's a thing that stays inside the game, but during the match is really cool and it's really funny whenever you got those rounds and you stand up and you shout at them when we did like the Chris Redeemer pose.

Lucas: So yeah, it's really cool.

Jonatan: I think this might be like the most screamy major like ever.

James: Trash talk major.

Jonatan: Yeah, like I don't know if it's a Brazilian influence or what it is, but everyone seems to be doing it.

Lucas: I had to be without voice in the third day of the stage 2.

Lucas: I was taking medicine, you know, for the throat and the pain.

Lucas: And also, I don't know how Dumau did not get throat and the pain.

Jonatan: Oh, bro, he was the killing man.

Jonatan: That is crazy.

James: He was the loudest.

Lucas: Bro, he was shouting since the stage 1 until the last day of the stage 3, and his voice was like, oh, cool.

Lucas: I had no voice in the stage 2.

James: Bro, I spoke to him when they lost, and he's just normal, chatting, no problems.

James: Everything's fine.

James: He's just going through it, no voice paIN.

James: We'll look at some of the other games on stage 3.

James: PaIN was one of the teams that qualified.

James: Looking at this though, Vitality, I think it's very sad.

James: They lost their win streak on a best of one, but I also think it was the greatest kick in the face for a team possible on a major run, because you got slapped by Legacy, but then you just went, okay.

James: No, no, no, it's not going to happen.

James: It's not going bad like this.

James: They then go through 3-1, no real surprises there.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Furia 3-0, that was a surprise.

Lucas: I was surprised, but being honest, whenever they announced they were going to bring Yakin Dar and Molodoy, I didn't know Molodoy really well, but Yakin Dar knew it.

Lucas: I always felt that when Furia removed Art from the team, they were lacking someone aggressive.

Lucas: Of course, they had cello, but I think bringing Yakin Dar is a more experienced guy, and a guy that passed in European teams, they had a different way to approach the game compared to Brazil teams.

Lucas: So whenever they announced the duo, I was like, okay, they're cooking.

James: Really?

Lucas: Yeah, they're really cooking.

James: When we first saw it was announced, I was like, I don't know how this is going to work.

James: I don't know what's going to go on with the English.

Lucas: Yeah, my main concern was the language team.

Lucas: Because I know Yakin Dar speaks English, but I didn't know about MoloDoy.

James: We can have a conversation, but he's not perfect in it.

Lucas: Yeah, it takes time.

James: Your English is good, by the way.

Jonatan: Yeah, but it's amazing.

Lucas: Yeah, good to hear.

Jonatan: No, it really is.

Jonatan: I didn't expect you to have this good English.

Jonatan: You're so young and I mean, Brazilians sometimes can struggle with it.

Jonatan: I know if we even talk about the FURIA case, I think Yuri and Kacerato didn't talk that much English to start with.

James: Yeah, Kacerato does a bit better now.

James: Yuri is getting there, I think.

James: I think it's a confidence thing with him.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Most of the Brazilians struggle with the part of actually speaking and also the accent, because understanding, you have like Snow.

Lucas: He doesn't speak perfectly English, but he understands everything.

James: But he's so confident.

James: The thing I always said about Snow is when he's doing an interview, even if he doesn't know what he's saying, he's never not confident.

James: So sometimes he can just confidently talk through whatever he wants to say, and he just like powers through.

Lucas: Yeah, for me, the thing about languages is whenever you spend days having to speak a different language than your native one, you're going to get better, whatever you do, you're going to get better.

Lucas: So whenever Furia announced them, I was like, okay, if they fix the language issue, they might be better than the old lineup.

Lucas: And also a funny thing for me, being a Brazilian, falling, giving up the AWP was something that was like, okay.

Lucas: It's not that I found wrong, but it's a huge moment of the history for us in Brazil because he's the main AWPer of Brazil.

Lucas: He's always been the role model for every AWPer in Brazil and seeing him playing as a rifler is something that you could not get past without talking about it.

James: But don't you think it's like, as he gets older and he's realized, he's not hitting shots like you, he's not hitting shots like Molodoy, he's not hitting shots like Manasil Zaiwe, right?

James: He can have some good games of the AWP, but there is a limit because he's not got that same read, that same connection to the game like he had in CSGO.

James: He's also trying to IGL at the same time, which IGL AWP is hard as hell anyway.

James: So it's like, I love the fact that it's like a humble thing for him, like, you know what, I'll give it to someone else.

James: I'm going to work on this over here and make this magic happen.

Jonatan: But I think what kind of worried people as well is like, you looked at Astralis and just before this announcement happened, you had like a KDN and that completely failed kind of project of him going to the rifler.

Jonatan: So you're like, no, not again, you know?

Lucas: Yeah, but I'm with you.

Lucas: I think it was a good move.

Lucas: It was an interesting move, but more of the story part of the move, you see Fallen, you always think about his whole brand line, doing some flaky shots and stuff like flashy like that.

Lucas: But it surprised everyone, but for me, they are playing well and they deserve it.

James: And he's got a really good read on the game.

James: Like for me, the read he has right now is like, he has some timings where he'll push smokes and it's not like someone just brainlessly doing something, you know, like he's hearing things you see is impacting his calling, how he can tell people what to do and where to go from what he's doing.

James: Like people don't understand right now.

Jonatan: He always had that even as an offer, right?

Jonatan: Like taking space, he wasn't afraid.

Jonatan: He was always, you know.

James: I think he's enjoying this more as well because it's something so refreshing.

James: And you can see it a bit in his gameplay.

Lucas: Yeah, I think sometimes in your career, I haven't been there yet, but.

James: Yeah, you got a few years to go.

Lucas: Yeah, but whenever you get older, you might need something new for you to light that spark inside of you.

Lucas: So for me, it was really cool stuff and it's playing out for them.

Lucas: So it's really nice to see them.

James: Can you remember what we did for your pick'ems, by the way?

James: Did we put Liquid 0.3?

Jonatan: Yeah, of course we did.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: Did we do Liquid 0.3?

Jonatan: Yeah, I put Liquid and 0.3 on 0.3.

James: We put Liquid and 0.3.

James: So we did this together the episode before this, right?

James: Where it's just me and him.

James: Yeah.

James: We did his pick'ems, so we do his pick'ems together.

James: And I just said to him, like, I just have this feeling that unless NAF pops off and comes back to some sort of form, they will completely fail.

James: And damn, I was right out of nowhere.

James: G2, we kind of messed up on, like...

Jonatan: I think also, I think if Liquid were, like, in the Stage 2 first and kind of grinded their way up into form a little bit, I think they could have made it a lot better.

Jonatan: But going straight into Stage 3, being like one of the...

Jonatan: Well, let's be fair.

Jonatan: They were the worst team even going into the tournament of the teams that were already at Stage 3.

James: And that's, by the way, when there's, like...

James: Oh, yeah, the ones coming in.

James: They were the worst of the new teams coming into Stage 3.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: So, it's like...

Jonatan: It's tough.

Jonatan: It's not like they're a bad team.

Jonatan: I think it's just that they haven't had enough time to play officials and learn the mistakes.

Jonatan: They've had like two tournaments, I think.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So, for me, that's the weird part, because if you look at Liquid line up, you got five guys that play really well.

Lucas: And they solve the problem of the IGL, playing with twists, bringing in Shuhui.

Lucas: So, for me, it's weird.

Lucas: In my pick-ups, I did not put them on 0-3 because they had a boot camp.

Lucas: I was like, okay, they maybe can play solid CS because they have the players to do it.

Lucas: But whenever I saw them going out like this, I was like, something weird is happening, you know, because you have nerds.

Lucas: He's really, really good.

Jonatan: Yeah, they have really good players.

Lucas: You have Shuhui and Ultimate.

Lucas: I think he kind of leveled off a little bit, but when he started, he was a complete beast.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And he was doing stuff that none of the actual alpers were doing.

James: He needs some time to find his confidence again.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: But for me, liquid stuff, it's weird.

Lucas: I don't know, maybe more time for them because I don't think they have to change the lineup for having good results.

James: Well, they might need to change the lineup because of this whole Valve thing.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: They might want to be America.

James: Back to North America.

James: So that might mean they have to.

Lucas: I'm curious to see who they bring if they change the lineup.

James: I got to tell DevWallet is right.

James: So on my own pick'ems, I had Liquid Zero 3 as well.

James: But guess what?

James: When I saw, because after the podcast, it announced that Shuhei is being like full-time IGL, joining the team.

James: So then I was like, okay, on my own, I'm going to take them out.

James: I didn't put them going through, but I didn't have them Zero 3 because I thought, okay, they must have cooked something.

James: So I cooked my own pick'ems by taking them out of Zero 3.

James: Oh, I did myself so dirty, man.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: And another surprise for me, being honest, is Aurora.

Jonatan: Oh, yeah.

Lucas: I did not expect them going out one tree, especially because of the year they had.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: They were like finalists in the first tournament of the year.

Lucas: And they had pretty much every performance as well.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: They played every tournament.

Lucas: They went further in every tournament.

Lucas: They were playing good and they have actually good players, with Kadea, Xantares, Woxic, the new guy Jordan, who also plays well.

Lucas: And Major for me is one of the best IGLs we have right now.

Lucas: So for me, it was really weird seeing them going out like this.

Lucas: I haven't seen who they played against, but for me it was...

Jonatan: They played the...

Jonatan: Yeah, they played Furia.

Jonatan: Faze, Furia, and then they went to play G2, which they lost this year.

Lucas: That loss to G2 for me is the real one.

James: That was a 16 in a 12, 13-4.

James: 13-4, I think that was.

Jonatan: You can definitely excuse the Mouz loss.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: Mouz is a great team, so losing to them is not an issue at all.

Jonatan: And Furia, I mean, Furia has been playing great lately.

James: Yeah, we touched on that.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: I think, you know what?

James: So when you say about Aurora, and that was a surprise, the Mouz one is impressive as well, because they were 0-2 with you, and they still grinded it back up.

James: But their run arguably was harder than yours, because they had Liquid, then they had Aurora, and then they had Legacy, who obviously, Legacy were hyped as hell, right?

James: And every game Mouz played, they could have lost.

James: It wasn't like they just did Vitality and smashed teams on their way.

Lucas: It was tough matches.

Jonatan: I thought Liquid was going to win.

Jonatan: Like, I was watching that game.

Lucas: Especially in the third map, ULTIMATE was killing like a thousand.

Lucas: So yeah, it was a tough role for Mouz.

Lucas: And when you see the stats from the game against Legacy, you think they lost.

Lucas: But yeah, well played from Mouz, in a really rough path for them.

Lucas: But it's also a surprise for me if they did not win to the playoffs because they are, for us, they are our kryptonite, I can say.

Lucas: We can't win against Mouz.

Lucas: We have to still beat them sometime, but they are a tough team to play against.

Lucas: And for me, it surprised me they went 0-2.

Lucas: But at some point, I was thinking, okay, they probably going to make it because now we have an easier path and they are totally capable of doing it because their team is pretty solid right now.

James: Who else we got to talk about phase?

James: Because this phase was living the dream.

James: Simple was not I'm not going to say prime simple, but he's starting to look like he's back in many ways.

James: Like already stage two was good, but now doing it against better opposition, the win they had against Mongols as well.

James: Like it was kind of close on ancient.

James: They had that huge comeback of T rounds, like round after round on the T side, they just found the flow state.

James: And by the way, I did the interview with simple, like the winner's interview, and he was just happy with joy.

James: You know, and this is a player who's won a major, who's won all the biggest events, who's been the best player in the world over and over again.

James: And he's that excited.

James: That says a lot.

Lucas: That's pretty cool.

Lucas: And also the fact that he joined such a legendary team with legendary players, I think is the whole storyline is pretty cool for them right now.

Lucas: And I think everyone in the world wants to see simple play again.

Lucas: Yeah, everyone is really hyped up to see him playing happy and playing well also because he was playing really well.

Lucas: Of course, we can't compare him to like 2021, but he's getting there and it's really cool to see them advance in the way that they did advance because they picked up tough matches.

Jonatan: Yeah, tough matches, but he looked comfortable as well.

Jonatan: I think and talking about simple, I think it's just like every time I saw him in a clutch, I felt like it was prime simple.

Jonatan: I think it's only like the early rounds or sometimes the mid rounds where he was struggling a little bit, but every single clutch, I think I don't even know if he lost the clutch.

Jonatan: It felt like he won every single clutch.

Lucas: Yeah, the cool thing for me is even though he was away like for six months or one year, it was a year, but he came back playing right now.

Lucas: He's playing a fucking major and he's screened the way he moves on the map is still the same.

Lucas: He's still aggressive.

Lucas: He's still making flashy shots.

James: He's still in that crazy flick in his.

Lucas: Yeah, all the shots that he hits is like, yeah.

Jonatan: Don't share a table with s1mple when he's shooting, you know.

James: Do you know what's wild as well?

James: He hadn't been in a major playoffs since Rio in 2022, because they missed it in Paris.

James: And then when it came to CS2, he was already taking time off and wonderful came in on Na'Vi.

Lucas: Oh, he did not play Shanghai, right?

James: No, he did with Falcons, but he didn't make it through.

James: Oh, he didn't qualify.

Lucas: Yeah, so it's a long time.

James: So it's been three years since he was in a playoffs of a major.

Lucas: Yeah, it's really cool for him.

James: That's a big move.

Lucas: Yeah, we also got to talk.

Lucas: Na'Vi, for me, they are under the spotlight, but for me, they are always a solid team.

Lucas: Yeah, of course, they fell down a little bit, but they still made it and made it convincingly.

Lucas: I think they have really good players and they can still play.

James: They got a tough match up though for the playoffs.

James: They play in vitality.

Jonatan: But they were close to also losing against G2 and G2 was qualified.

Jonatan: That was a really, really close game.

Jonatan: But, you know, I thought they would like narrowly make it, which is kind of what they did, I guess, in that 3-1, 3-2 bracket.

Jonatan: I probably thought they would win 3-2, but yeah.

Jonatan: They're looking a lot better than what they've done in recent tournaments, Na'Vi.

James: Definitely.

Jonatan: I think they're probably in a situation as well, kind of maybe like you guys, like where you go into the playoff now, you don't have that much pressure on you.

Jonatan: You're not like...

Jonatan: You can just enjoy the moment, enjoy the game and just play your stuff and see where it takes you instead of like, you know, we have to, we have to, you know, and...

Lucas: Have to go to the playoffs, we have to go further, yeah.

Jonatan: So I think they're probably in a good position where, you know, playing as an underdog is always a little bit easier.

Lucas: Yeah, they are a team that is super capable of winning the whole Major.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: Oh, you still think that?

Lucas: Na'Vi?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Yeah, I do think and also the upper bracket, we are in the lower one, not disrespecting any of the teams that we are facing, but the upper bracket is like a tough one.

Lucas: It's a tough one and it's going to be a...

James: It's a brawl.

Lucas: Yeah, it's going to be a brawl there because for me, as an example, Vitality and Na'Vi are going to face each other, right?

James: So Vitality, Na'Vi, Spirit, Mouz, you guys, Furia.

Jonatan: Face Mongols.

James: And then face Mongols.

Lucas: Yeah, you take our example, Vitality, Na'Vi, I think of course Vitality are the favorite ones, but Major Playoff, I don't see as...

James: It goes out the window.

Lucas: Yeah, it's not a big enough upset to Na'Vi to beat Vitality, so it's going to be a fun one to watch and also a fun one to play.

Jonatan: It's probably the worst teams they could have on their side of the bracket for Vitality, so...

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: I think one thing that is cool, it's cool to mention that one of you guys, Furia, Face Mongols are going to be in the Grand Final.

Lucas: Yeah.

Jonatan: That's going to be super, super cool.

James: First Playoffs.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Grand Final.

Jonatan: Don't think about it yet.

Jonatan: One game at a time.

James: One round at a time, one game at a time.

James: We know how it is.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: All right.

James: I will say then, from this point, we've done obviously looking at stage three.

James: Thank you for your thoughts on everything NQZ.

James: Now, All About Counter-Strike becomes All About NQZ for real.

James: So, me and Dev will be doing our research.

James: We're going through some things here.

James: First thing we've got to ask is, is Alma, was that the first professional team?

James: Does that count as a professional team?

Lucas: Yeah, it was the first professional team.

Lucas: I remember I joined them when I was 14.

James: 14?

Lucas: 14.

Lucas: It was a really fun process because back in the days I was still in school.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: A friend of mine used to play in this team and all of a sudden, they banished him and I had like ZMB added on scene.

Lucas: I was like, maybe I'll text him and give it a try.

Lucas: Don't you guys want to test me?

Lucas: He said yes.

Lucas: I remember it was like 10 p.m.

Lucas: I had class on the next day and I was playing with my life on the test.

Lucas: We were playing garage and my mom was at the door of the room.

Lucas: Like, people, Lucas, you have to sleep.

Lucas: Let's go, let's go, let's go.

James: Oh, really?

Lucas: I was like, Mom, just give me one second.

Lucas: One second, please.

Lucas: I joined them and we played a few tournaments, online tournaments back in the days.

Lucas: But we managed in the end of the 2019 to qualify for the biggest tournament in Brazil that we had.

Lucas: So we had paIN, we had like who else?

Lucas: Izuru that become best here right now.

Lucas: So a lot of big teams and for me, I have never played against any of those players.

Lucas: So for me, it was a huge shot for me to be playing against the best.

Lucas: And I remember we played the qualifier and we were like, we have four teams in the qualifier and ours was the worst one.

Lucas: Nobody was expecting us to win the qualifier and we make it.

Lucas: And I remember I was just screaming and I told my mom, mom, I'm going to live in São Paulo.

Lucas: It's because the tournament was the only one.

Lucas: And she was like, OK, for how many days are we going to stay away?

Lucas: And I was like, I'm going to live there.

James: At 14, you said you lived there?

Lucas: At 14.

James: You're brave because my parents would beat the shit out of me.

James: If I ever said that.

Lucas: And we spent like two weeks arguing with each other.

Lucas: Like she was like, you're not going.

Lucas: And I was like, if I'm not going, I will not make anything in my life.

Lucas: I was like, a little, little, how can I say?

Lucas: Disturbing young guy.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: I just wanted so bad to travel and play the tournament.

Lucas: And at the end, she let me go.

Lucas: And this was my first team and the first experience that I have actually on LAN.

Lucas: But back in this team, I was the rifler.

Lucas: I was actually.

James: Before the Orbin days.

Lucas: Yeah, I was actually an entry fragger.

Lucas: And I spent like, I think, maybe a year or six months on this team.

Lucas: And it was my first experience.

Lucas: So I have a pretty good memories about this team.

Lucas: I was really young.

James: So were you paid to play?

Lucas: I paid to play.

James: They're like, were you paid to be a player on this team?

Lucas: I was paid.

Lucas: My first salary was like, today it's got to be $100.

James: But you were $100 and you moved to Sao Paulo.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: How did you move to Sao Paulo at $100?

Lucas: They were paying everything for me, including this time was rough because I had to study while playing.

James: Oh, so you went to a school in Sao Paulo as well?

Lucas: I went to a school in Sao Paulo, and I remember I was like the first student to be picked up and the last one to be dropped off.

Lucas: So I have to wake up like 5.

James: On a school bus?

James: Yeah, on the school bus.

Lucas: So I have to wake up like 5 a.m.

Lucas: and I was dropped off at the gaming house that we had at the time, at like 1 p.m.

Lucas: and the practice started like 2 p.m.

Lucas: School wasn't that long, though, then?

James: The hours of school not crazy?

Lucas: Yeah, it was really crazy, but it was a small city.

James: So a school in our countries starts at like 9 a.m.

James: till 3 p.m.

James: What was your school time?

Lucas: It was 6 a.m.

Lucas: until maybe 8 a.m.

Lucas: Okay, so like 12?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Well, that's a crazy-ass time to have you kids awake at 6 a.m.

Lucas: Yeah, and I remember I had to get to the gaming house, I had to have lunch, I had to get some sleep because I was dying of tired.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And after that, I had to practice for like five maps, six maps.

Lucas: And I remember in the pauses of the practice, I was going to do homework for the school.

Lucas: So it was a really crazy time of my life, but then COVID arrived and I moved back to my home.

James: Okay.

James: So wait a sec.

James: So your parents eventually agreed with this?

James: Yeah, eventually.

James: Did they support you in the game and stuff before?

James: Did they understand you wanted to be a professional or did they not really understand?

Lucas: At the start, no, because as a mother, as a father, you see your kid, I was 14 at the time.

Lucas: I was not getting paid well, but it was normal for the time.

Lucas: And my mom's main concerning was, okay, you can play, you can do whatever you want about playing, but you have to finish school and you have to pursue a regular life in school.

Lucas: But she didn't have the knowledge that you can actually live from this.

Lucas: So it took me a little while to show her that, okay, I can live with this, I can make a life gaming.

Lucas: So at this time, she supported me, but at the same time, she was like, you're not going to drop school, you're going to finish your school.

Lucas: And after that, you decide what you're going to do.

Lucas: But until there, you stay studying.

James: And your dad as well at the same time?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Your dad's in your life, mom's in your life?

Lucas: No, actually, my dad is not in my life.

James: Okay.

Lucas: He's alive as well, but I do not have contact with him.

Lucas: So back in the days, my mom, she was the one who was more present in my life and she was taking all the decisions for me.

Lucas: So for her, since I started playing CS when I was five, she always knew that I loved the game, but she didn't expect me to become a pro.

Lucas: And it was a fun time.

Lucas: It was a tough one because I had to convince her that, okay, this is what I want for my life.

James: This is crazy as well, because obviously we hear a lot about the family stories with it and you were so young.

James: Like it's hard for some 16, 17 year olds to convince their parents.

James: You're 14 at the time and you moved to a different city.

James: Do you have any brothers and sisters?

Lucas: I have one brother.

Lucas: He's older than me and one sister who's younger than me.

Lucas: But my brother, I spent my whole childhood playing CS Soares with him, playing games.

Lucas: I left for there, DayZ.

Lucas: We used to be gamers, but at some point I started playing only CS and he did not.

Lucas: I actually thought that he was going to follow the same route that I have.

James: Oh really?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: But what's the age gap?

James: How old is he?

Lucas: He's four years older.

Lucas: So back in the times, I was like eight years, seven years playing CS with him and he was four years older.

Lucas: So he was way better than me.

Lucas: I always thought that maybe he wanted the same thing as me, but he did not.

Lucas: But I spent my whole childhood playing with him.

Lucas: Today, he watches all my games and supports me a lot.

James: Nice.

Jonatan: How common is it?

Jonatan: Because you mentioned you were in school, right?

Jonatan: You had a schoolmate who was in this team.

Jonatan: So how common was it for people to maybe play as young as you?

Jonatan: Did you have people in your school, in your class, that were the same age that actually played Counter-Strike at the time?

Lucas: Actually, it was not that common.

Lucas: So I had one or two friends from my hometown that played.

Lucas: And back in the days, I was so shy to tell people what I really do in my life, why I'm in another city.

Lucas: Because for me, it was something like, that's not a common thing.

Lucas: They're gonna think that I'm weird.

Lucas: And back in the days, it was a concern of mine being a young teenager.

James: That you don't want anyone thinking that.

Lucas: Yeah, I don't want anyone saying what I'm doing here.

James: We've all been through that.

Lucas: Yeah, so when I was a teenager, I was like, I'm gonna do my own stuff.

Lucas: If they ask me, I do play, but I only like to play and all that shit.

Lucas: But at a certain time, I told close friends of mine in Sao Paulo that I am actually a pro.

Lucas: They reacted way better than I was expecting.

Lucas: They started acting with me like I was a superstar.

Lucas: It was the first time that I actually had a good feeling talking about the people that I played.

Lucas: I love to play.

Lucas: I'm a gamer, actually.

Lucas: So yeah, it was really cool.

James: That's awesome, man.

James: We look back, maybe you can tell us if we're wrong or right.

James: We found what we think is your first HLTV game.

Jonatan: I don't have a good track record of finding this.

James: It was against Keyed Stars.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Okay, so that's correct.

Lucas: Yeah, we have some famous names of Brazil there.

Lucas: ZQK, he played with Fallen, Showtime also.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And the other ones, I don't know if you know them.

James: Jonatan is crazy.

James: I'm going to tell you this, on your team, on your team, I don't know a single person other than you.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: There's no one else on this team that I know.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: You've got ZMB.

Lucas: ZMB played for Fury Academy, Raul also, and now Raul.

Lucas: He's the assistant coach from the Flexo Demons.

James: Danviet.

Lucas: Danviet.

Lucas: I don't think he plays anymore and Banking, not also, but yeah, there are non-guys in the Brazil scene, but outside, I don't think...

James: Not so much.

Lucas: You're not going to know them.

James: Okay.

James: But so this is your first time on a team.

James: You even had a gaming house back then at this young.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: You obviously got to learn a lot and go through it all.

James: And then I'm going to skip through a few teams because we don't need to go through like so much of each and every team you went to.

James: What did you say?

James: Daytona is the next notable one?

Lucas: Daytona is a notable one because it was the first time that I actually won a big tournament in Brazil.

James: Nice.

Lucas: And I think you guys know Nack from my VR.

Jonatan: Yeah, absolutely.

Lucas: We won the last tournament of this guy's career as a player and I won with him.

Lucas: So it was a really cool moment.

Lucas: And also, if you notice, we have Zevi here.

Lucas: So I actually was the rifler when Zevi was the helper.

James: And you got Cowers there.

Lucas: And Cowers also, a good friend of mine, old friend of mine, but it was really special for me because Nack is a legend in Brazil, back in the 1.6 days.

Lucas: And having the pleasure to win his last tournament of his career with him was really cool.

Lucas: But whenever we won this tournament and he told us, I'm going to retire, guys, and Zevi and Pedia left, we were just like me, Cowers and Rix left in the team.

James: Rix?

Lucas: Yeah, Rix was our coach in the time.

James: Was Rix even the coach when Nack was there?

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: Wow.

James: So you had an oily relationship with Rix?

Lucas: Yeah, with Cowers and Rix.

Lucas: So whenever those three guys left, I was like, okay, we have the option to call a Brazilian Oper.

Lucas: Or maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, I can become the Oper.

Lucas: And I was talking with Rix back in the day when I was like, I have this this willing, I have this feeling that I can be a good Oper, Rix.

Jonatan: But did you used to, did you used to like be like the hobby Oper, so to speak?

Jonatan: Like you would pick it up sometimes when you have the good money and like, I'm just gonna play it.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Back in the days with Zevi, I was always playing double Op and it was always like, at some point this guy is gonna become the Oper because he's always playing with the Op.

Lucas: So I was more of a hybrid rifler because I wanted so bad to become Oper.

Lucas: And for me, there was no better moment than this one, because we are actually with two players, one coach, and we can solve the Op problem with me.

Lucas: So this was a very important moment in my life because for me, until today was a better decision that I made in my life.

James: It seems like it, yeah.

Lucas: Because I always play with the Op whenever I wasn't a pro player, and I always loved to play it.

Lucas: But when I became a pro, I had to give it up because I don't know if it happens in Europe, but in Brazil, oftentimes you are called for the team, but you are not called for the role that you do.

Lucas: The same that happened with Snow.

Lucas: So I had to give up the Op so I can join a professional team.

Lucas: I was like, okay, I want to be a pro, so whatever the Op.

James: Doesn't matter.

Lucas: Yeah, but some years passed and I was like, I want to come back to be an op and this time was a one.

James: Did you want to be an op from the inspiration of Fallen and stuff like that?

James: Because I hear from a lot of Brazilian op's that are like, oh, I see more Fallen there and I want to have that.

James: I want to do these highlights.

Lucas: Yeah, I cannot say that I'm not inspired by Fallen, but the thing is I started to watch Pro CS in a time that they have already passed the time that they won everything.

Lucas: So I remember the first major that I watched was the Astralis one in 2017.

James: Okay, yeah, Atlanta?

Lucas: Yeah, Atlanta, yes.

Lucas: And for me, I started focusing a lot in the Vice.

Lucas: So I saw him playing and I was like, this guy plays really well.

Lucas: And this was a turning point for me because he became a role model.

Lucas: And as you said Fallen, he has a lot of good plays and is an amazing player.

Lucas: But I did not see myself playing as he was, he used to play because he was so aggressive.

Lucas: He was a lot of times doing all that flashy stuff.

Lucas: And I was like looking at the Vice and I want to be like this guy.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: You know, the cool guy, his shots and he can always be trusted.

Lucas: Not that Fallen couldn't, but the Vice seemed to me like he was an annoying guy to play against and a solid guy.

Jonatan: Very annoying.

Lucas: To have in the team.

Lucas: Yeah.

Jonatan: So, yeah, that's that's really cool.

James: We go and then if we go from here, right?

James: Because I'm trying to get us further to a more recent time.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Well, you go through some changes, so you get benched in Daytona.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: You go to B4, but it lasts just a few months.

James: How do you end up on 9Z?

James: Because I feel like this is where we start to get to like a more notable team and more notable organization.

Lucas: What happened is when I was in Daytona, I was benched.

Lucas: I had some good offers from, I remember back in the time, MRPR called me to play the blast showdown.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: It was an international tournament.

Lucas: I was 16 and I was like, blast with 16.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: But due to some problems, I ended up in B4 and for me, it was really frustrating because I had offers to be outside Brazil and ended up in the Brazilian team playing in Brazil.

James: When you say outside Brazil, what do you mean?

Lucas: Practice in Europe and have in bootcamps and play international.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: So this time in B4 for me was a time that I used to, okay, now I'm going to fucking destroy everyone in Brazil because I really don't want to be here anymore.

Lucas: I don't feel like I...

James: You wanted to be on a Brazilian team?

Lucas: I wanted to be on a Brazilian team, but competing outside.

James: I was like, no, I get you, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lucas: Because not being egocentric, but I felt that this time I was a level above the people in Brazil.

Lucas: So I really wanted to test myself in Europe.

James: You need to have that belief though.

James: That's good.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So that's when the offer from 9Z came, and I was really surprised because whenever the B4 owner told me that a team made an offer for me for him, I was like, okay, maybe it's a Brazilian team, maybe it's MIBR again.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: But it ended up to be 9Z, and I was really shocked because our analyst is TGE.

Lucas: I know, I think you know him.

Lucas: He was a previous coach from 9Z, and also Zack were there.

Lucas: So I had two Brazilians that I know, but inside the server, I'm speaking Spanish with four guys that don't speak Portuguese.

Lucas: Max lived in Brazil, David played in Brazilian teams, but they told me in the first day of practice that, okay, we know that you are Brazilian, you know that you speak Portuguese, but here we want to have Spanish as our main language.

Lucas: So we're going to help you to get to this point.

James: Did you know Spanish at all?

Lucas: The thing is, I learned Spanish in school, but it was like pretty standard Spanish classes.

Lucas: So how is it in Brazil?

James: Is it like Portuguese first language, Spanish second language?

Lucas: In Portuguese language and at specific places, you have the opportunity to learn Spanish.

Lucas: So at school we had English and Spanish, but it's way different learning at school to having to live every day with persons that actually speak Spanish, and they have their own accents.

Lucas: So I remember when I joined NZ, we had Rox, he was our entry faggot, and he's from Argentina, and I couldn't understand a single word that he was talking.

Lucas: So we were like 2v2 situations, me and Rox, I didn't understand nothing.

Lucas: He could be saying like, to yourself, I was like, yes, yes, because I couldn't understand a single word.

Lucas: So at the beginning for me was really tough, and I remember in the start of NZ I was only talking Portuguese because I didn't have the habit of speaking Spanish, but whenever the time passed, I was really all day trying to learn, how can I say what I want to say?

Lucas: How can I say what I want to do?

Lucas: But it was a funny thing because it was a thing that I used to communicate way less than I communicate today.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Because since I didn't know that much of Spanish, I used to stay more quiet and only saying specific things whenever I needed to say.

Lucas: Of course, some Portuguese used to come.

Lucas: And also David, he used to speak Portuguese in that days.

Lucas: But it was a really fun time for me.

Lucas: It was a really cool process because I speak Portuguese plain say as my whole life.

Lucas: And all of a sudden, I was playing Q1.

Lucas: It was my first tournament, Q1.

Lucas: We played, I think it was the Rubik's Cube.

Lucas: We played the Major, we played the RMR.

Lucas: And all those tournaments, huge tournaments for me because I have never played.

James: How old are you now?

Lucas: I was 17.

James: 17, so you're still not even 18?

Lucas: Yeah, I was 19 in IZ.

Lucas: I remember the first flight that I had to Europe.

Lucas: I was going to Belgrade.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And I couldn't even have one minute of sleep in the plane because I was so anxious.

Lucas: I wanted so bad to arrive in Serbia and play.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So for me, it was one of the best moments in my career because we passed through a lot together and mostly good moments.

Lucas: My first major qualifying and we managed to play in front of the home crowd in Brazil.

Lucas: And it was a mixture of feelings because I remember Brazilian crowd was supporting us really, really well because we had a Brazilian team.

Lucas: But I remember playing against Imperial, Fallen's Imperial.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And whenever we won the match, I remember I stood up and do like this for the crowd.

Lucas: And it was the worst decision that I made because next day people were in my Twitter like, bro, you're Judas, you betrayed our own country.

Lucas: And I was like, no, I was 17.

Lucas: I was like, really, really afraid.

Lucas: And it was a mixture of feelings.

Lucas: But playing in Brazil was completely amazing.

Lucas: So 9z, I have only good feelings and only good memories about them.

Jonatan: I feel like 9z during that time as well kind of came out of nowhere and started actually making an impact so quickly on the international level.

Jonatan: Sorry, I'm still like tired, so my eyes aren't really there.

Jonatan: But yeah, I remember you guys being a super, super exciting team to watch because you play this like really slow encroaching style that was very controlled.

Jonatan: Remember Mirage specifically, you could creep up, poke a little bit and the execute will come behind it when you need it.

Jonatan: And you played like a different style of CS, I would say, to European teams.

Jonatan: This was very, very controlled, really good utility usage in that team, I remember.

Jonatan: Super, super good.

Jonatan: It was a really fun team to watch and you could even learn some stuff from.

Jonatan: It's like when you play a team that you're good at executes, you can poke, you can do all of these different things and you do them well and you feel comfortable doing it.

Jonatan: It's really annoying to play against because you don't really know what's going to hit.

Jonatan: Because sometimes you get a read like, OK, we save utility, we save molotovs because they are executing a lot.

Jonatan: But then all of a sudden the two rifles are sneaking up on you and you can't stop them because you're too late holding utility or waiting for that stuff to happen, you know?

Lucas: Yeah, and I think we were in everyone's maybe prime back in the days in CS go, of course, because the DGT was playing so well, David was playing so well.

Lucas: And whenever we brought Buda to the team, everyone was like, this is a risky move because he came from Academy.

Lucas: It was like two or three events in his whole life in HLTV.

Lucas: So he was a really young and inexperienced player, more than me.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: So but we fit together well.

Lucas: And also, I have to give the credit to Max because he's one of the best IGLs I've ever played with.

Jonatan: Really?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Nowadays, I compare him a lot to Big Uzerra.

Lucas: I don't know if people know this, but Max has a pretty similar play style to Big Uzerra.

Lucas: And also back in the 90 days I was there, he was really sharp and wise.

Lucas: So it was really cool.

Lucas: And as you said, I felt the same that we were a thing that we could do mega strats and execute, but at the same time, we were just walking straight on bathrooms or banana on overpass.

Lucas: And one minute 30, we were outside.

Lucas: So it was a really cool moment.

Lucas: And I felt like if I had stayed a little bit more in 90, we couldn't or we could have gone further than we did.

Lucas: But it was a really cool time.

James: And this was crazy, right?

James: So you're still in like you're young, you're 17.

James: Are you now living with parents again?

James: Or were you living in Sao Paolo?

Lucas: I was living with my parents.

Lucas: Living with your parents, yeah.

James: So you still lived at home in a different way.

James: Yeah, I went back.

James: Gone through all this.

James: How did the Zero Zero Nation offer come together?

James: How did you end up there?

James: Obviously, people to know the Zero Zero Nation you landed on is January 2023, Cold, Lato, Demau, TACO and then you.

Lucas: Yeah, the thing is, when 2022 ended, I was pretty hyped up in the Brazilian scene.

Lucas: I remember Yuri, Caserato and also Exile put me as the bold prediction for 2023.

Lucas: Exile as well.

Lucas: So that really surprised me.

James: You understand your Brazilian counterparts, but Axel, that's a big...

Lucas: For me, it was completely random because what Exile has to do with me and why is he putting me...

James: Did he see you?

Lucas: No, we used to practice a lot against them, so I thought maybe this is the reason, but for me, it was a really cool thing.

Lucas: And back in the days, Exile was, I think, a top five player in the world.

Lucas: So for me, it meant the world for me and I was pretty hyped up.

Lucas: So as I said, a lot of offers came in.

James: Axel, given this is a big help to your career.

Lucas: Yeah, a lot of offers came in and 0-0 was one of the offers that came in.

Lucas: And this one was a tough one because as I said, I think until today, if I had stayed in 9-Z, we could have gone further with the team.

Lucas: But as a Brazilian, I have to say, getting the opportunity to play with Cold and Taco was a thing that whenever came to my door, I was like, I cannot say no.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Because it's cold, it's Taco, it's the same with Fallen.

Lucas: Everyone in Brazil wanted to play with Fallen and still wants to play with Fallen, have the chance to play with Fallen.

Lucas: So other than that, we have a lot to end them all.

Lucas: That for me, still nowadays are pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good players in Brazil.

Lucas: So for me, it was a solid team.

Lucas: And also having the chance to come back to speak my native language.

James: It's a big win.

Lucas: So for me, whenever they invited me, I was like, I love the guys from 9Z, I love the organization, but I cannot say no to this.

Lucas: You know, and this is where I felt like the team, the thing started to fell apart for me because in 0.0 we started well, we managed to go to Pro League, we managed to go to the RMR, but I felt like the vibe in the team was a complete different one that I had in 9Z.

Lucas: So in 9Z, we were all the time together, doing stuff together, and I think in 0.0, we were like more distance from each other.

Lucas: It was like more a team environment and not a family environment that was like the same in Brazil.

James: Do you think it was because the age differences?

Lucas: Yeah, maybe because the age difference, because...

James: You got three young guys, you, Demar, and Lato.

Lucas: And Colton Tackle, who has already won everything and had their own lives to live, because I came there as an 18-year-old young boy, and Colton, he has like, he had like 27, 28.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: So he had his life, he has his family, and he has the stuff to do other than the game.

Lucas: The game is not, I thought that the game was not his prior focus, as he used to be when he was in LG and SK.

Lucas: This is a common stuff.

Lucas: It's a natural stuff.

James: That's what happens when you get older, you got to do some other stuff, yeah.

Lucas: Yeah, but we started well, and I really saw future in the team, but all of a sudden Tackle had some issues and he had to leave the team.

Lucas: And for me, it was really shocking, because I think we played less than two months with Tackle and then he left the team.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And I was like, okay, what do we do now?

Lucas: Because the RMR was in one month, we haven't an IGL and Cole was, we need to start to IGL, we have to find a player and then this is where we brought Nex.

Lucas: But the thing about Nex, he was a really cool player, a really good player, but he was away from CS, he was actually studying, he stopped to play CS, so it was like...

James: Him, yeah?

Lucas: No, Nex.

James: Nex, okay.

Lucas: The 9-1.

Lucas: Yeah, we spent a good time with him, we played Pro League with him, we played the RMR with him.

Lucas: But the thing for me is that I entered 00 Nation with expectation, and all of a sudden the whole thing went down, and we had to play with stand-ins, and for me it was a really tough moment of my career because...

James: Well, you've built it up in your head, right?

James: Like what it could be.

Lucas: Yeah, what it could be.

James: What you want it to be.

Lucas: What it ended up being.

Lucas: And also, Colu is a fantastic person, but inside the server we did not match well together.

Lucas: And I think his way of doing stuff and solving problems was really different than mine.

Lucas: So I had some issues with this because he's from the old times of CS.

Lucas: I think the guys from these times used to do stuff way more, I'm not going to say aggressive, but way more emotive than today.

Lucas: So I felt like the way that we were solving problems in Zeroes Ornation was not the best.

Lucas: It was more like screaming at each other or maybe arguing too much.

Lucas: And for me, this was a really tough thing to deal with because...

James: And you were young.

Lucas: Yeah, I was young and we spent a lot of time away from Brazil.

Lucas: And also, as I said, in 9Z, it was a completely different environment for me.

Lucas: So it was hard to adapt, it was hard to fit in.

Jonatan: And I could also imagine, like you have like Coldzera and TACO, they're yelling, you're making this mistake, that mistake and they're your idols in some sense.

Jonatan: It must take like a lot harsher on you as a person when they are saying it to you, compared to someone else, you know, where you can maybe say like, we're on the same level, like chill.

Lucas: Yeah, but I truly feel there was no hard feelings between me and Cold and Taco because, as I said, outside the server and also inside the server, there were amazing people, amazing players, but for me, I was really young and I did not know how to handle being criticized in that way.

Lucas: So it was a tough period and I had to, and I tried really hard to adapt to it, but for me, it was really rough and added to that, I felt like the boys from the Rosero Nation, they used to be from Godsent and they had no opera in Godsent.

Lucas: So I felt like the play style of him was adapted to not have an opera.

Lucas: So I felt playing that there, that I did not have too much space to play in my own way, to do stuff that I wanted to do.

Lucas: So I felt pretty limited there.

James: And help me understand this right, because we've spoken about this on many broadcasts, on this podcast as well.

James: When you're on a Brazilian team, your contract is really difficult to get out of, right?

James: The buyouts and all this stuff.

James: So obviously you started very young, but you still went around a few teams.

James: Yeah.

James: So did you have good contracts or the buyout wasn't too crazy?

James: Or how did you get through all this?

James: Because you started at 14.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: The thing is that I, thank God, my mom always helped me with the contract stuff and she never let me.

James: Shout out mom.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: Shout out mom because she never let me sign any bad contract.

Lucas: I think also this crazy buyout has started recently.

Jonatan: Okay.

James: So it's more.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: It's more recently and as you said, it's completely crazy because nowadays-

James: It helps us understand it as non-Brazilian people.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: It's something that comes from football, originally, where this is how we've been told by other people.

James: That it comes from Brazilian football where big football teams wanted to come and buy a Brazilian player because he's very skilled.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: So they had a thing in the contract like a clause where it would be whatever is salary but like times 400 or times 200 or something like that.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: There's a law in Brazil if I'm not mistaken.

Lucas: That you have to have a buyout that is like a hundred times.

James: Okay.

Lucas: Your salary.

Lucas: But the problem lives there because in football you have laws.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: In Counter-Strike you don't.

James: So you guys don't have, because I'm hearing some people have this in their contracts now.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Maybe now.

Lucas: But back in the days we don't have any laws to make the contracts right.

Lucas: So you have like people receiving, let's put like $1,000 with a million of buyout.

Lucas: What?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So the thing is...

James: And they're just signing because they don't know better.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And that's the point because players like me, whenever you got an offer, you just want to go so bad to play in that team.

Lucas: You're not focusing too much on reading the contract, seeing if everything is right.

Lucas: So thankfully I had my mom to do it for me.

Lucas: But if not for her, I would not do it.

Lucas: And maybe I'll be stuck in some bad contract.

James: Because that's what's interesting.

James: I look at your career and you're on multiple different teams.

James: You even went to 9Z, then you come here.

James: You didn't ever seem to be in contract, Gels.

Lucas: Yeah, but that's the main point because in Brazil, about this contract, people were not being honest with the players.

Lucas: And added to that, the players were not concerned about reading contracts and seeing what they were actually signing.

James: Of course, but that happens everywhere.

Lucas: Yeah, that happens everywhere.

Lucas: But I think the thing in Brazil is now on a different level because as you said today, you cannot buy a single player in Brazil for a normal price.

Lucas: So I remember seeing a news that I think the VP lineup was sold for $6,000.

James: $600,000, yeah.

Lucas: $600,000, yes.

Lucas: And a player in Brazil is like $400,000.

James: For like Insani or something like that, right?

Lucas: Insani is, from what I suspect, he's not even close.

Lucas: That price is way higher.

James: Way higher.

Lucas: Yeah, so in Brazil, it's...

Jonatan: I mean, it kind of hurts the Brazilian scene to some degree, because, I mean, you need...

Jonatan: I mean, now you've done really well at this major, but prior, it's been kind of cold from the Brazilian teams in some sense.

Jonatan: And I feel like every time, you know, you have like big teams struggling and you could see that they need to have a change in their team, but there's nothing available, right?

Jonatan: And you can see it with Toria now, like they couldn't do anything, so they had to kind of go this international route, because...

Jonatan: not because of the lack of talent in Brazil, but because of the lack of obtainable talent, I guess.

Lucas: Yeah, you have to have a ton of money to buy one single player.

Lucas: So, I feel like in Europe, whenever teams need to change, they go there, they see the market, okay, I want this player, I can buy him.

Lucas: But in Brazil, making changes in the teams is so difficult, because everyone...

Lucas: I'm not saying that they don't deserve to be expensive, but it's not...

James: But it doesn't make sense.

Lucas: It's not a logical price.

James: The value for that, right, is like, let's look at this.

James: If you're telling me, say, you think that Insani is way higher than that, he can't cost the same as a Monacy, yeah?

James: They're players on two completely different levels.

Lucas: Yeah, and not because he's not as good as Monacy, or he can't be good as Monacy, but because Monacy has done a lot.

Lucas: And the proof is there.

Lucas: Yeah, Monacy has done a lot, he has performed a lot, and not Insani that doesn't...

Lucas: He didn't have it, but comparing one to each other, you can compare them.

James: But let's even do it with you, right?

James: Obviously, if we're going to go to some Brazilian team that wants to come buy you, let's say MRBR wants to buy you tomorrow, right?

James: And your buyout is like 1 million, just say, this is all just...

James: I'm lying about numbers, we have no idea about numbers.

James: So 1 million for you, but you can go and buy Molodoy for 200k.

James: I'm going to go buy Molodoy.

James: I'm sorry, I like you, but no, it doesn't make sense.

Lucas: That's the point.

Lucas: That's exactly the point.

Lucas: So making transfers and making roster changes in Brazil, it's been difficult.

Lucas: It had never been that difficult.

James: Is your mom very well-educated?

James: Yeah.

James: Okay.

James: So you're double-lucky with this.

Lucas: Yeah, she helped me a lot in that case, because if not for her, I'm pretty sure I would not be in a good contract.

James: You have a good relationship with her now as well?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: A really good relationship, because...

James: You take care of her with that stick of money?

James: Yeah.

James: You got to pay it forward, bro.

James: You got to look after mom.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: But yeah, the thing is, today in Brazil, it is way easier, and you have as good options as you have in Brazil to find elsewhere, because in Brazil, the players are not affordable.

James: Oh, that's crazy.

James: But luckily, you've been on paIN for quite some time.

James: So you go through this moment, right?

James: So if we get back to the timeline, Zero in the organization, you get drop body organization, it becomes fake Natty.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: What happened in this?

James: Was it just like the organization didn't want a Brazilian team anymore?

Lucas: Actually, I don't know what exactly happened, but I think that we had the people from Norway from Zero in the Nation, and also the Brazilian part of the Zero in the Nation, and the Brazilian part wanted to create their own organization.

James: Nevermind, that's dead.

Lucas: That's dead.

Lucas: Dead.

James: He's a legend of the scene.

Lucas: Yeah, yeah.

Lucas: So he told us we want to go to our own organization, we want to split up from Zero in the Nation, and we want to build a new organization, but it took some time.

Lucas: That's why we stay as fake Natty.

James: Fake Natty is the...

Lucas: It's the worst thing that I've ever seen.

James: It's the funniest name because...

Lucas: You want to check my HLTV page and there's fake Natty there.

Lucas: That's...

Lucas: I found it horrible.

James: Who made the team name?

Lucas: Actually, I think it was Dead alongside our manager.

Lucas: They're still in Legacy.

Lucas: His name is AmeriKo.

James: Someone has some steroid obsession here because that's...

James: When I read that...

Jonatan: I mean, it's even a bad name for a mixed team.

Jonatan: Like, it's, you know...

James: Yeah, it's just not good.

James: It's like...

Lucas: Yeah, it's terrible.

James: If I see this name, I'm like, I don't know if I want any of these players.

Lucas: Yeah, because...

Jonatan: You know, like, the difference...

Jonatan: You join a server and you're like, I'm MIBR or something, you know, you feel like a young kid, like it's cool.

Lucas: I'm playing today against FakeNed.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: It just sounds like you're a bunch of kids on steroids.

Lucas: Yeah, but the thing is that back in the days and into 2023, there was a guy who was really famous in Brazil.

Lucas: He was a guy that is a doctor and also a bodybuilder.

James: Okay.

Lucas: And he has this whole meme of FakeNed and all that stuff.

Lucas: So that's why we put this name.

Lucas: But for me, I prefer to have no name than this one.

Lucas: But then we went to Legacy.

Lucas: And for me, it was a certain point that I was like, completely with no confidence.

Lucas: And I did not want to be there anymore.

Jonatan: You had a rough line up with a lot of changes.

Jonatan: You never really got to the flow.

Jonatan: I mean, you played like three months with Tarko, three months with the next, then NxKz comes in instead.

Jonatan: It felt like you never could get a flow going.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And for me, it was a really hard thing to deal with, because as I said, I finished 2022 in the best way possible.

Lucas: And my whole 2023 was terrible.

Lucas: I was...

James: So you went like here.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So my confidence was completely off and I just wanted fresh air.

Lucas: I needed fresh air, but I was playing so bad that I think maybe I'm not going to get any more chance than this one.

Lucas: But thankfully God, all of a sudden I received the offer from paIN and also in the time from 9z.

James: Oh yeah, 9z come back to you.

Lucas: Yeah, so I remember talking to my mom and I was like, mom, this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

Lucas: Yeah, because I was my way out.

Lucas: Yeah, I was so low confidence and I love the boys from Legacy, but I couldn't perform there or be happy there playing.

Lucas: So whenever those two teams invited me, I had this chat with my mom and she told me, son, I really think the best decision for you is actually going to 9z.

Lucas: Because she loved the time that I was there and also the fans from 9z, they were always really supportive of me.

Lucas: And we had a lot of good memories there, but I told her mom, I really want to go to play because I feel like it's going to work.

Lucas: And also having Kyle was there, he's a friend of mine since 2016.

Lucas: So I really wanted to play with him and I needed fresh air.

Lucas: Did you live close?

Lucas: Yeah, Rix also and also Lux because I play with Lux and Litona.

James: Did you live close to Kyle or something or did you live only for CS?

Lucas: Only for CS because Kyle lives at the end of the world.

Lucas: It's really far from everybody in Brazil.

James: He lives at the end of the world as well.

Lucas: Yeah, we had this meme of Kyle in the team that he had to pick up a horse, a boat, a taxi and a plane to get to Sao Paulo.

Lucas: So it was really tough.

Lucas: He lived at the end of the world, but I really wanted to play with him, Lux and Rix.

Lucas: Also, all this time that I played in Brazil, Bigu was always a known guy.

Lucas: A guy that whenever you play against pain, he was a pain in the ass.

Lucas: He was always playing well and was always a guy that I looked into it and thought that this guy is good.

Lucas: Having the chance to play with him someday would be a good experience.

Lucas: And it did so.

Lucas: But as I told you guys, whenever I left 00 Nation and went to pain, I was really low confidence.

Lucas: So when I arrived to pain, it took me some time to regain my confidence.

James: Of course.

James: So when you got the offer between 9z and pain, who was offering more money?

James: I don't know how to tell me what money, but like who was the same?

James: Both the same?

Lucas: Yeah, it was the same.

James: So it was just the straight same offer?

Lucas: Yeah, the same offer.

James: So it was just your feeling, people you knew on there?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Also, you get to speak just Portuguese as well, which helps.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And I really wanted to be in the paIN organization also because I was always a fan, because I used to play League of Legends when I was younger.

Lucas: And they are a pretty known organization League of Legends.

Lucas: So I was always a fan of paIN and having the opportunity to play under the organization was a really cool stuff for me.

Lucas: And I just wanted, so I told mom, I respect your opinion, but I really want to go to paIN.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: So it was an improvement from going into the server from fake Natty.

James: Yeah.

James: He was in paIN when he got to paIN and had to find himself again after all that.

Jonatan: But also, I guess also like a good choice as well.

Jonatan: I mean, I'm sure you would have the same opportunity in 9-to-C, but like being that low confidence, having some of these guys who knows you and knows how good you can be.

Jonatan: To kind of, because in this line up, you guys for the first time for you didn't change that much for a while, right?

Lucas: Yeah.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: It was the first time that we actually got a team that could stick up together for a long time.

Lucas: And we played the RMR, we went to the Major, but it was a cool process because I remember everyone helped me a lot.

Lucas: And also, Cowboys, Lux and Rix, that knew me well and played with me when I was a total different guy.

Lucas: They saw me playing that way and feeling that way.

Lucas: They were like, we're not like this.

Lucas: So it was a really cool process.

Lucas: And I remember arriving in pain.

Lucas: I was like, okay, what will I do right now?

Lucas: Do I still know how to play CS?

Lucas: But it took me a while, but we made it to the Copenhagen Major.

Lucas: Yes.

Lucas: And it was a really, that was still with Nissen, right?

James: That was like his last.

Lucas: Yeah, with Nissen.

Lucas: But it was a really cool feeling for me because I was nearly the rock bottom when I left Seas Road Nation.

Lucas: And whenever I made it to the Copenhagen Major, I was like, bro, this is feeling so good.

Lucas: Because at some point I was thinking, maybe that's it for me.

Lucas: Because of course I was really young, but it was passing inside my head.

Lucas: And whenever it got to the Major, I was like, okay.

James: I'm back.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: I'm not exactly back, but I have the chance now to be back.

Lucas: And it was, as I said in an interview back in Copenhagen, was the best thing that made me alive to join PaIN because the people here, the players and everyone, basically everyone here makes me stay here forever.

James: And you're nearly at two years with the organization.

James: You joined in November 2023.

Lucas: Yeah, at best line.

James: And it's going fast.

James: Yeah.

James: So I want to talk about the Nissim thing because Nissim played incredible during that Copenhagen Major as well.

James: But it was just like the last event.

James: Was there no way you guys could hold on to him?

James: There was like, I know it's alone, but like what happened there?

Lucas: The thing about Nissim is I think paIN had a loan deal with Sharks.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And from what I've heard, the price was a certain amount before the Major.

Lucas: But after we played the Major and he played really well.

James: Of course.

James: Of course.

Lucas: The price went higher and I don't know what happened exactly, but paIN and Sharks did not get into a deal.

Lucas: So for us, it was really shocking because we ended the Major almost going to the playoffs with a four-month team.

Lucas: So we wanted to stay together.

Lucas: And I think not only me, but Cowboys, Lux and Bigu wanted to stay with Nissim and he also wanted to stay with us.

Lucas: So whenever he left...

James: It's so sad.

Lucas: No, it's really sad.

Lucas: And whenever he left, he told us, I'm not going to keep playing because I just want to play with you guys.

Lucas: I was like, no, bro, it can't be that way, you know, because we all wanted him and he wanted to stay.

Lucas: So it was a really, really sad moment for all of us.

Lucas: And I remember in the time that we used to play a lot against Sharks in Brazil and we were flaming in all the matches because we were really upset about the situation.

Lucas: But it is how it is.

Lucas: And we...

James: It's the shit side of the business.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And we brought actually Mie.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: From the...

Lucas: Mie Zin.

Jonatan: From paIN Academy.

Lucas: From the Academy.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: It was one of the finest and humble guys that I've ever met.

Lucas: We played Get Real with him.

James: Yeah.

James: You won.

Lucas: Yeah, we won.

Lucas: And this tournament is...

Lucas: I have no words for this tournament because it was a complete mess.

Lucas: With all the respect, but it was a complete mess.

Lucas: We managed to win, but I remember...

James: This is the one with all the problems, right, at the event.

Lucas: Yeah, all the problems.

Lucas: I remember we were leaving the arena at 5 a.m.

Lucas: and we had to come back at 9:30 p.m.

Lucas: Oh, 9:30 a.m.

Lucas: Jesus.

Lucas: So we were...

James: So this was like some event had been set up.

James: They'd over done things.

James: They couldn't actually run an event successfully, right?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: I think all the stuff were not being done in the right way.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And I remember we were playing at the same time two more tournaments.

Lucas: So we were playing per day, three tributaries.

James: So you're doing this LAN and then some online as well.

Lucas: We are playing this LAN and also the EWC qualifier online.

Lucas: So I remember we played MIBR on Get Real and we played MIBR on the same day for EWC.

Lucas: So it was, if you ask any of the guys of the team that were there, it was the craziest tournament of our entire lives because we were really, really tired.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And we had all that situation with Imperial that we wanted to play in the next day.

Lucas: They didn't want it.

Lucas: So we started to play BO3 at 2, 2 in the morning.

Lucas: And I remember the family from Nie.

Lucas: He was like his father, his mother, his, how do I say it in English?

Lucas: His uncle, his aunt and they were all there at 3 a.m.

Lucas: in the arena.

James: That's love.

James: That's family love.

Lucas: And we ended up winning.

Lucas: So it was a really cool tournament because had some international teams, some teams from Europe.

Lucas: So it meant a lot for us winning that tournament.

Lucas: But being honest, it was a complete mess.

Lucas: The tournament was not done right.

Lucas: I remember after our final, it had to be occurring the women's final.

James: After you guys?

Lucas: After us.

Lucas: Oh, wow.

Lucas: And I remember there was no big screen on the arena because I don't know what happened, but the game was not shown big screen.

Lucas: So it was a complete mess.

Lucas: I don't know what happened.

James: So sad.

Lucas: But is it the type of tournament that I will not say a lot of bad things because we ended up winning.

James: So yeah, yeah, yeah.

James: And that's like is that the biggest win of your career at that point?

James: Yeah.

James: Yeah.

James: Yeah.

James: On LAN with this new paIN team.

James: But then the lineup changes again.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Academy player doesn't stay.

James: You guys don't get on with him, right?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: The thing is that he was so he was really an experience at the time.

Lucas: But we felt that we couldn't stay with him because he still needed time to be able to play in a thing like the hours was.

Lucas: I have only good feelings and good memories about him, but he was not ready at the time, I feel like.

Lucas: So we went to SNOW and I remember being at Rio after we won the tournament.

Lucas: I was having lunch with Bigu and he told me, what do you think about SNOW?

Lucas: And this is the point I was like, he's a good player, but I'm afraid of what bringing in a 17-year-old teenager, that the opposite roles from what we expect him to do here, will make to him.

Lucas: So other than that, I was like, okay, he's young, he seems to be a good player.

Lucas: So for me, if he's committed to doing new roles, because we wanted him to do new roles, for me, there's no reason why, because we always had this philosophy that we can make a good team out of new players and unexperienced players, because we are actually getting experience together, and I think that's a good way to grow up.

Lucas: So we brought up Snow.

Lucas: And for me, he's one of the best streamers that we have ever made in paIN, because...

James: You almost didn't have him.

Lucas: We almost didn't have him.

James: So I know Wildcard wanted him, right?

James: That was public.

Lucas: He was pretty hype.

James: You guys wanted him.

James: But like there were other teams also wanted him, right?

Lucas: Yeah, I don't remember which team, but I remember that whenever we talked to with Snow and his uncle, they were like, okay, if you really want him, you are the priority.

Lucas: He really wants to play in paIN.

Lucas: So he was a mutual interest, because whenever we called him, he was like, okay, if that's right, if you are actually calling me, I want to go there.

James: Perfect.

Jonatan: How was, actually, I wanted to ask this, how was your, like, because we touched, you knew some of the guys, you knew some of the players going into paIN as a team, but how would you compare it, you know, like, you're obviously with the 0-0 nation and that's thin, and didn't feel as much of a family anymore.

Jonatan: Do you feel like in paIN, you got brought back to that kind of family feeling, and that's why it feels like it's not as much of a risk bringing in younger players?

Lucas: Yeah, absolutely.

Lucas: I think joining paIN brought me back that feeling that I had in 9Z.

Lucas: Outside the server, we are not only teammates, we are friends.

Lucas: So for me, specifically having that is a really important part and is a thing that can actually help you to get better at what you're doing, actually our job.

Lucas: So all the players that passed here from paIN, we always been really, really united.

Lucas: And I remember in the last Major in Shanghai, drop from RBR came to us, we were like four people in the gym.

Lucas: And he was like, you guys seems like the perfect team because you are always doing stuff together, you are always laughing together.

Lucas: And it was a thing that really caught me thinking because, of course, we are not the perfect team, we were not the perfect team, all teams have problems.

Lucas: But in that sense, we were really united, we were always doing stuff together.

Lucas: I remember in Shanghai, we were like, be cowards as no one looks in the same room, just talking shit, laughing and stuff like that.

Lucas: So that's a thing that still lives up to day, that we are really united and this is the things that, for me, makes the most difference.

James: It's such an important factor as well.

Jonatan: I don't think people realize how important it is because you're spending so much time with people.

Jonatan: I assume you're still going to get annoyed at each other and have moments, but...

Lucas: Yeah, absolutely.

Jonatan: Everyone does.

James: Family do.

Jonatan: Yeah, but it's just a consequence of spending too much time with people, in a sense, not because they're generally annoying or anything.

Jonatan: But I think you also get more hungry, more willing to learn, more willing to teach each other and breathe and live Counter-Strike if you enjoy doing it instead of it being this heavy burden you need to escape, which can happen in some teams.

Jonatan: So I think it brings so many good things that I don't think people realize.

Lucas: Yeah, absolutely.

Jonatan: No, I won't say anything.

Jonatan: I was just thinking.

James: It's all good, man.

James: It's a lot of talk when you get the podcast, but it's a lot of things to look at.

James: So, okay, Snow comes in, all this hype around him, but he's changed roles, he's changed position.

James: And it wasn't, I wouldn't say it's a bad time in paIN, but I think because of Snow coming in, the expectations were maybe higher from the public as well.

James: There was more eyes on paIN.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And also we were in a point last year that the discussions about who is actually the best Brazilian team started to show up.

James: We were talking about that a lot on the English desk.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And it's always a thing that we try to not think too much about it.

Lucas: But at the end of the day, everyone's going to do it.

Lucas: And everyone wants to be seen as the best Brazilian team, although this doesn't mean too much in the international scene.

Lucas: It's good.

Lucas: So this conversation started.

Lucas: And I think like it didn't help.

Lucas: It didn't bother us that much.

Lucas: But we start to.

James: You were the best Brazilian team at one point, for sure.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: At one point, I do feel like we were.

Lucas: But that's when we lost to to FURIA.

Lucas: And we started to have some tiny discussions and some problems that we did not manage to fix it.

Lucas: And that's when the Lux bench came.

James: So the Lux benching, because I really like Lux.

James: I thought he was always good.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: It did come as a surprise.

James: So what was the reason behind the Lux bench?

Lucas: Yeah, the thing is whenever we decided that we're going to bench him, we knew that the community was going to react a little bit weird, because it did not make sense at the time for the people.

James: On paper looking at it, yeah.

Lucas: Outside, I understand that did not make sense, because as I told you, other players from other Brazilian teams look at us like the perfect thing, the thing that is going to shine really soon.

Lucas: But for us at the time, it makes sense, because we felt that we needed...

Lucas: How can I say it?

Lucas: I'm not going to try to...

Lucas: I'm trying not to say bad things about Lux, because I love him as a person, as a player.

Lucas: But we are trying to find a person with some other qualities that he didn't had or maybe did not pursue yet.

Lucas: And we found that on David.

Lucas: So we needed a guy that was aggressive.

Lucas: I'm not going to say all the time, but I felt like Lux was a guy who was really methodical and really focused on the process of the things and always studying things and trying to do the things as most robotic way possible.

James: You know, the correct way of doing it.

Lucas: Yeah, the correct way of doing it.

James: He was also like more of a second caller as well.

Lucas: Yeah, second.

James: Second voice in the team.

Lucas: Yeah, second caller.

Jonatan: So what was it that you needed the X factor to kind of go like...

Lucas: I felt like...

James: Yeah, you can say it.

Jonatan: Because I mean, sometimes, you know, like, I always see like almost a Counter-Strike team as, you know, you start off as kind of an FPL player, you're just doing things randomly, and then you have to not unlearn all of that and start playing real Counter-Strike, where you structure a team play, playing with teammates, and then you unlearn that and you go back to FPL again, in some sense, where you need to like break the mold, you need to change things because everyone knows how to play this right way that you have to change into this crazy way in the right way, if that makes sense.

Jonatan: I know it sounds weird, but yeah, yeah, no, no, I do get it.

Lucas: But yeah, it's similar to that because we felt that in David, we could have a player that was actually his natural way of playing was being aggressive.

Lucas: So we know that he can play the right way in the correct way, but he's the guy that we know that he will do unexpected things because it's his way of playing.

Lucas: And that's why we felt that we needed not that Lux couldn't do it, but we felt like in David, we will find a more natural playmaker and aggressive player.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: So for us, it makes sense to make this change.

Lucas: And until today, I talk a lot with Lux and I hope him the best.

Lucas: But for us, it was a really tough move to make because he was a lovely person, a lovely player and also a really good player.

Lucas: But as I said, for us, it makes sense the addition from David.

Lucas: And he was also a guy that I knew really well from playing from 9Z.

Lucas: And he was a guy that Bigul always had a side on even before I joined it, because he's a guy that aim-wise is one of a kind.

James: Yes, we saw that.

James: I remember him Blast Bounty was ridiculously good.

James: So for us...

James: If I'm right, he lives in Brazil.

Lucas: He lives in Brazil with his girlfriend.

James: His girlfriend is Brazilian.

James: Yeah.

James: And he speaks perfect Portuguese.

Lucas: He speaks perfect Portuguese.

James: So yeah, zero problems on communication despite the flak.

Lucas: Yeah, so for us, at the time, it makes sense for us to have Lux, to have David, sorry.

James: Yeah, David instead of Lux.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: And was there ever a chance that you wouldn't be able to sign him from Red Canids?

Lucas: Actually not.

James: Just a smooth thing.

Lucas: Yeah, back in the days, he wanted to come and Red was willing to make a good negotiation from both parts.

Lucas: So we managed to bring him.

James: And then the start of 25, I would say is good.

James: Blast bounty, I'm looking at paIN, I'm like, okay, David's here, this looks great.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: He was owning a blast bounty, like just ripping heads off.

James: And then you make it to playoffs.

James: And I think, okay, we're really cooking now.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Then, Katowice, you were at Katowice, right?

Lucas: Yeah, we were in Katowice.

James: Katowice wasn't so good, I remember.

James: But then also it was Cluj-Napoca.

Lucas: Cluj-Napoca that we went to the playoffs.

James: First playoffs, Cowers is there.

James: But at this point, even to me, Cowers was definitely the weak link of the team.

James: Like, it wasn't standing up to what you guys needed.

Lucas: Yeah, the thing about Cowers is because, as I said, he's a really close friend of mine and a really good friend of mine.

Lucas: But I felt that during his time in pain, he basically done every role in the game and...

James: Changed.

Lucas: Changed and changed constantly.

Lucas: And as I said, I think that I said for you, when we removed him, it's hard to be consistent when you don't even know what role you're going to be playing the next day.

James: Very good team, mate.

James: Like, he's doing everything for the team.

Lucas: Yeah, he did everything that he could for the team.

Lucas: But we felt like he was starting to maybe crumble and he was losing confidence.

Lucas: And maybe it was the time for him to come back to do what he really liked to do.

Lucas: Because, as I said, some players have their own profiles of playing, the way of playing.

Lucas: And you could clearly see that Cal was not feeling comfortable playing as lurker, as an anchor.

Lucas: So he was not fitting well the way that we needed him to fit.

Lucas: And it was clear he was not comfortable doing the roles.

Lucas: And you could see that on his game.

Lucas: So you mix that with bad performances, we can say.

Lucas: You lost confidence and more.

Lucas: If you go losing confidence.

Lucas: And at a certain point for us, it was pretty clear that he was not being good for him and also not for us.

Lucas: So it was the toughest decision that we had to make in my life.

Lucas: Because I truly, he's a good friend of mine.

Lucas: I truly love him and we been through all together.

Lucas: But he was not feeling well about the positions.

Lucas: And we were not feeling well about him playing that position.

Lucas: So for us, it makes sense to make that move also.

James: How does paIN go about these changes?

James: Like, is it just Bigu and Rix?

James: Or do they talk with you guys as the rest of the team?

James: Like, are you involved in these conversations?

Lucas: Yeah, we always like to do conversations with the whole team because we want to everyone to be having the knowledge and understanding what we want to do and where we want to go.

Lucas: So, if you are making a move, everyone needs to know why we are making this move, who we are thinking to bring.

Lucas: And of course, everyone, whenever you make these benches, to say goodbye, of course, is the hardest part.

Lucas: But I think it's the better one to do it because everyone stays on the same page for the upcoming moves.

James: But the upcoming moves was a player coming from the Academy League, or the Academy Team, shall I say.

James: And it's a great opportunity for him.

James: He was very young.

James: He had some maps that were okay.

James: But was this ever...

James: Have you ever, like, the final move, was there a chance for him to be on the team, or was it more like just a waiting for what you wanted to try and see happen?

Lucas: Yeah, actually, we wanted to see what's gonna happen.

Lucas: Of course, if he, I don't know, played a fantastic way, and not that he didn't, but, of course, he had a chance to stay on the team, but he would have to show amazing stuff because it was not our first thought.

Lucas: But I think that it's really rough whenever you get a guy from the Academy and you just troll him at the Tier 1 and expect him to perform well.

James: And different roles and positions again.

Lucas: Different roles and different positions again.

James: His first film was Bucharest, right?

Lucas: Yeah, it was Bucharest.

Lucas: And as you said, he did play, of course, not great, of course, not shit, but he did play well some matches, but it's really rough to get a guy that haven't played anything.

Lucas: It was his first LAN.

Lucas: And you're going to troll him to play against Nico, for example.

Lucas: So, as I said, I've been there and it's really rough whenever you go to this first opportunity.

Lucas: But we had a good time with Dimo.

Lucas: He was a really good kid.

Lucas: And as you said, we were trying to take this time with him as teaching him some stuff and also for him to learn some stuff and be better for the next team that we will join.

Lucas: So, we were not certain about DGT yet when we were at demo, but we were heading that way.

Lucas: And I think it was a pretty good moment for him.

Lucas: Of course, not ideal for us because we didn't want to play with standings at the same time.

James: You can't help that.

Lucas: Yeah, but at the same time, we wanted to give our best and show him what it's like to compete against the best, what it's like to travel from outside Brazil to play against the best.

Lucas: And I think he deserved that opportunity and was a pleasure to play with him.

Jonatan: Is the month of April something paIN fans should be worried about or paIN Academy players should be excited about?

Jonatan: Because both stand-ins came at the same time of the year, both in April.

Lucas: Yeah, yeah, that is a good stuff I didn't know about.

James: Yeah, the April paIN month of craziness.

James: Yeah.

James: It's funny, right?

James: Because then we look at this, and Demo Play is two events, right?

Lucas: Yeah, two events.

James: And then you get DGT.

James: DGT was on 9Z for six years.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: That's a long time.

James: Was this just perfect timing?

James: Like his contract coming up to end, was it?

James: Or he wanted to change?

Lucas: I think he maybe wanted to change.

Lucas: I haven't had a talk with him about that, but for us, whenever we got to know that he actually wanted to go to our team, we were like, okay, this might be the move that we need to go to a next level.

Lucas: And of course, first, whenever we played the BLAST tournament, he completely wrecked.

James: Oh, no.

James: Was it Rivals or Lisbon first?

Lucas: It was Rivals.

Lucas: We went to Lisbon.

Lucas: But whenever we played the first tournament with him, of course, our expectations were really high because I think everyone, when we actually brought him to the team, we were like, okay.

James: This one, you had all five, right?

James: Bigger was there, Riggs wasn't there.

Lucas: Yeah, the Melbourne stuff, I'm not going to say too much about it.

James: We just ignore that.

Lucas: That was more...

Lucas: Yeah, you can't...

Lucas: It was more of a having fun tournament because we were...

James: This is me laughing at Riggs.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: It was really funny to look to my right side and having Riggs play alongside me.

Lucas: So, the Melbourne tournament, we just wanted to have fun and enjoy as much as we can.

Lucas: We always won against FaZe.

Lucas: So, it was really cool, but nothing to say about it was a really unfortunate moment because Bigoo was the CEO of the office here.

James: Yeah, is it?

Lucas: But whenever we brought DGT to Blast, we were like, okay, we can't have that much of expectations because we only practice two days.

Lucas: But right now, I think everyone thought the same, that right now we have the team that we are, it only depends on ourselves right now because we have all the pieces that we want to solve that puzzle, the whole puzzle for us.

Lucas: Because as I said, we were lacking a guy that really anchors sites and play lurk roles from day one, and that guy is DGT, and Carlos, he was not a lurker at all.

Lucas: And DGT was always a lurker.

Lucas: I play with him and he was one of the best that I ever play.

Lucas: So for us, we had all the pieces, but we went to blast without practicing, and we had a little bit of cold water shower because...

James: Like, oh, this is what I expected.

Lucas: Yeah, because we got completely destroyed by mouse, and after that we got completely destroyed by wild card.

Lucas: So whenever we left blast, we knew that, okay, this tournament will not show us, but really, we are capable of doing with this lineup, but it was really sad to lose in that way.

James: Was Astana before or after?

Lucas: After, Astana was after.

James: Okay, so Astana is crazy because you expect to have DGT there.

James: Then he has the visa issue, and there's not many countries that Kazakhstan doesn't allow to visit them.

James: There's only a few countries that don't allow it.

Lucas: I didn't even know that Kazakhstan needed a visa to be there.

James: Exactly.

James: So he gets super unlucky with this.

James: But am I right also?

James: He doesn't speak good Portuguese.

Lucas: He's improving.

Jonatan: He's improving.

Lucas: He's improving.

Lucas: Yeah, but he's trying to learn Portuguese, but I think it's...

James: But he spoke Spanish most of his career or all of his career?

James: Yeah.

James: All of his career?

Lucas: All of his career.

Lucas: So it's not like David that started his career on the Brazilian team.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: DGT always speaks Spanish, so I think for him it's that part of, I want to speak Portuguese, but my mind still thinks in Spanish.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: So whenever he tries to speak Portuguese, some things still goes out as Spanish words.

James: But you've made it to playoffs of a fucking major, but the guy can't communicate.

James: When you can communicate, things are going to get real nice.

Lucas: Yeah, but he's doing way better.

Lucas: Now he's actually speaking Portuguese mixed with Spanish.

Lucas: As Bigu said, it's like the Portuguese, always a mix of Spanish and Portuguese.

Lucas: But yeah, we left blessed.

Lucas: No real comments about that, but Astana was a really tough moment because whenever we got taught that he was not going for the first two days, we were like, okay, what else is going to happen to us this year?

Lucas: Yeah, it's a rocket dropping on us.

James: Boom, boom, boom, over and over again.

Lucas: Yeah, and I was like, okay, we just have to win the first match and if we lost the second one, it's fine, we are 1-1.

Lucas: But this was a really interesting tournament talking about me because I remember playing against Odic and of course, I think that in this match we were favorites.

James: Yes.

Lucas: And we lost pretty badly.

James: And you didn't have Rick's right for the Odic match.

Lucas: No, it was actually DGT.

Lucas: So we had no excuses left.

Lucas: So we are the full team.

Lucas: We are favorites in a match that we were supposed to win.

Lucas: And I remember we lost pretty badly to Odic.

Lucas: And I was one of the worst feelings of my life, not because we lost to Odic, but because of the way that I played.

Lucas: And the next day we played against MIBR.

Lucas: We lost again.

Lucas: And I think this was the turning point for us to having this good result at the Major right now.

Lucas: Because I remember being so frustrated and so upset about the losses, not because we lost to Brazilian teams, but the way we lost.

Lucas: We had like a two-hour talk about everything that we need to fix it.

Lucas: Because, as I told you guys, we used to be a really united team.

Lucas: And everyone was feeling that we were missing this with this new line up.

Lucas: So we were starting to get more...

James: So it hadn't clicked yet.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: We were not staying together as long as we used to stay.

Lucas: We were not having good time together as we used to have.

Lucas: And we had all this huge talk about all this stuff.

Lucas: And we went back to Brazil.

Lucas: So Astana was a turning point for us because we had a shit tournament and we used it to, okay, let's talk everything that is bothering everyone right now so we can go to the most important turn of the year in a good way, in a good vibe, in a good mood.

Lucas: And it was the best thing that we could have done there.

Lucas: Because I remember leaving Astana and I was feeling in a way that I didn't even know if I wanted to continue to play.

James: Really?

Lucas: Yeah, really.

James: So this up and down of the stand-ins and the events, I don't think it had been that bad.

Lucas: Because this start of the year was really rough for us and I was like, maybe I need a one or two to get my mind together because I was not feeling well, I was not playing well and I was, okay, I don't know what else to do because...

James: You were overthinking.

Lucas: Yeah, I was overthinking.

Lucas: I think everyone was like that.

Lucas: So this talk was really, really important for us because if we came to the Major without having this conversation, I don't think that we'd be able to go this far as we are going now.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Who initiates these talks for the team?

James: Who says that we need to have this talk?

James: Is it Riggs?

James: Is it Biggu?

Lucas: This one is Astana was Riggs, because since he's from outside, he can note things and see things that we are not specifically taking a look into it.

Lucas: So whenever we lost to myBR, or I don't know which day we had this conversation, but whenever we had one of these losses, we were all in the practice room and he said, guys, we need to talk, we need to say everything that everyone is feeling because the things are not going well.

Lucas: We have no more excuses of standings or playing without the full team.

Lucas: We are with the full team and yet we are not feeling well with each other.

Lucas: So it was more of outside the server than inside the server, because as I said, inside the server, we have all the players that we could have wanted ever.

Lucas: I think, for me, probably it has the potential to be the best paIN lineup that has ever been.

James: Well, the proof is already here.

Lucas: The proof is definitely here.

Lucas: The proof is here, so we didn't want to be losing matches from stuff outside the server.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: So it was a really important moment.

Lucas: I thank God that we had this conversation because we wouldn't be here if not for this one.

Jonatan: That's really cool and you had it at a good time.

Jonatan: You had some time to change the things you needed to change because sometimes, I mean, you can even have positives from having these talks mid-tournament, but you don't really have the time to adjust and prove to people and yourself that you're making the changes, right?

Jonatan: We had plenty of those where it's good for a day and then it bounces back, but glad you guys actually made a change.

Jonatan: I'm sure you've talked about it before and helped a little bit, but then this was like a smash into a brick wall and, okay, let's go.

Jonatan: Yeah, but yeah, it's a really, really cool story and it's obviously proving to be a really, really good line up, exciting line up, and feels like you're back where you should probably have been even at the start of the year as you guys, where you showed that potential, where you were super exciting.

Jonatan: So yeah, it's really cool to get to know your story and you're like kind of, you know, history from being that like 13, 14 year old kid playing the first game to now being at a playoff at a major.

Lucas: Yeah, yeah.

Lucas: And yeah, after this one, we all felt that the things were going to change because at the end of the day, we had this conversation when we were in Brazil, everyone at their own homes, that if we play well at the major, if we have a performance that we can be proud of, every thing that has passed in this year, every bad stuff that we have passed on, will be only passed, we will forgot because the major is the most important part of the year, and it's what we all play for, it's where we all want to be, and it's the tournament that everyone wants to win.

Lucas: So we knew that if we came here and play a Seattle we can be proud of, it's going to be all worth it.

James: He told me something very interesting in one of the interviews.

James: Actually, I should tell this story first.

James: So on the day they went to play VP, NQZ did the pre-match interview with me, and I just told him, I said, I got a feeling that you're going to win today, like you're going to qualify today.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: And then what did you do?

James: You went back and told the boys.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: No, because he was super nice with me.

Lucas: He just hugged me and told me, you're going to win today.

Lucas: And I was like, I came to the guys and was like, guys, Banks just told me that we're going to win today.

Jonatan: He gave me a hug.

Lucas: This guy is the best one.

Lucas: Let's win it.

James: I just believe that.

James: Yeah.

James: You know, sometimes you wake up and have a feeling.

James: I'm doing my own predictions, right?

James: I'm like, I'm like, OK, VP is 2-0 into 2-2.

James: PaIN is 0-2 into 2-2.

James: Yeah.

James: You haven't remembered something.

James: VP were not winning rounds.

James: And I just was like, and then I saw him, I didn't even even spoke to him.

James: And I'm just afterwards, I was like, shit, they're actually going to win.

James: Like, PaIN is going to do this.

James: It just hit me like I was like, I'm going with my gut right now.

James: I've got this feeling.

James: PaIN's winning.

Jonatan: But by the way, when you're playing like VP, did you feel like you had this like advantage going into the game just because you lost in the previous stage against them, right?

James: Yeah, they played like a rematch.

Jonatan: Do you know this feeling where you're like, you lose a games to a team, you can make the changes and they cannot really do that much to prepare.

Jonatan: You always have like a little bit prep advantage because you know they're good stuff.

Lucas: Yeah, a little bit, but I felt the bigger advantage that we had is that we were 0-2 and we managed to win two matches in a row.

Lucas: MVP started 2-0 and got completely wrecked in both of those matches.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So what passed through our minds is like, guys, they are not in a good mood right now, maybe because they had two chances.

Lucas: They were completely blown out in both of those chances.

Lucas: And we are coming from 0-2, so we won the last few two days.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And I think the momentum counted a lot for us there.

Lucas: And also our history with VP, we had more wins than losses.

Lucas: So I think everyone knew that the first match, of course, VP played well, but we all left the match with the feeling that we threw a lot of rounds that we shouldn't.

James: You threw Dust2 last time.

Lucas: Dust2, the fleet on Goose 4k was completely...

James: Did you see this Devilwalk by the way?

Jonatan: I saw it.

James: The first time they played, Flamus was like with a 5-7 in Goose, Fleet was behind him, so Flamus runs out and just gun in, and they kill Flamus and they never, all three players from paIN don't look Goose again, and Fleet's just there like, oh, okay, no one's looking at me.

James: And he just waits and he just sprays you guys down.

Lucas: Yeah, and the funny thing is that we were one guy planting and two guys, I don't know why, running inside.

Lucas: So the scream from Fleet is really funny because he's like, and I remember asking David, bro, why are you running?

Lucas: We have the site, why are you running straight left and forward, left and right?

Lucas: And he was like, I don't know.

Lucas: But seeing Fleet's point of view, it was like, it was really difficult to make that 4K, and he also, after killing 3 guys, he landed me a headshot.

Lucas: It was absolutely crazy.

Lucas: But we ended the match with the feeling that, okay, we did not play a good CS today.

Lucas: And I remember talking to the boy, it was like, it was good that we lost today, so we can see that it's better to lost and see what we are doing wrong to advance in thinking that we are not mistakes being made, because the game from repeat showed us a lot.

Lucas: And going to the match, when the qualification match, we all know that they are going to change stuff and also we did change stuff.

Lucas: But the previous match counted a lot because we actually knew what to expect.

Lucas: And I was wondering because they did a lot of this bait and switch thing.

Lucas: So they like to put like flint on somewhere, someone go out running and he stands there baited.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: But in the first match, we were caught by surprise by it.

Lucas: But in the second match, we were checking every single corner in the map.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: So this was a thing that they used in the first match, but they couldn't use on the second match.

Lucas: So it was a little bit of an adventure for us, for sure.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: I'm so happy it worked out.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Me too.

James: I had that feeling.

James: And then I was scared for you guys on that dust too.

Lucas: No, we were checking every single corner.

Lucas: Every single corner.

James: It was good that you had the read on them, though.

James: You learned a lot from it.

James: And that's obviously so important.

James: And now you find yourself, you're going to get your first ever little statue trophy in the game.

Lucas: This was a thing that we were committing about.

James: By the way, this is the thing which is shit about playing Counter-Strike with him.

James: We hide our names on Faceit, so they can't see it's us.

James: But he has the fucking trophy, so everyone knows it's him.

James: You can't hide with him, it's impossible.

James: So, yeah, you will never be invisible again.

James: Yeah.

James: But it's a very nice thing to have.

Jonatan: Troll names don't work anymore now.

Jonatan: For you, it's over.

Jonatan: They're all going to comment that you see whenever you play.

James: They just work it out.

James: They're like, oh, okay.

James: And yours is a fucking major winning trophy.

James: So we really can't hide him at all.

Lucas: And yours is back in the days that each trophy was a different one, right?

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: Yeah, this one is so cool.

Lucas: I think they screwed up doing all the same for all the majors because you had, like, for example, Cologne, it was a Cologne trophy.

Lucas: You had, like, I think EMS won.

Lucas: It was a different trophy.

Lucas: So I think Valve should bring back this.

Lucas: It was really cool.

Lucas: But I'm really happy that I'm going to have a trophy.

Lucas: I'm really happy that I have a trophy.

James: And you're 20 years old.

James: It's not bad, man.

James: It's a beautiful thing.

James: The next thing to go, because we're at the end of the, like, I guess the NQZ part is we can kind of look at the playoffs bracket.

James: But I mean, how do you feel, first of all, about your side of the bracket?

Lucas: Being honest, I feel like we have a match that I said last year that everyone wanted to watch in Brazil.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And it was a group stage match.

Lucas: So I think now everyone really wants to see a pain and fury in a playoff match.

James: But you guys on this side, your stage experience is lacking in comparison.

Lucas: Yeah, in comparison to Fiori, we have way less experience.

Lucas: But I think, being honest with you, of all the matches that we could have got, I think catching Fiori in the first match will be the most entertaining and most joyful match to play, because either of these teams, I think, have good capability of going further.

Lucas: I'm being honest with you.

Lucas: I think that we, if you go to semifinals, we are totally capable of winning.

Lucas: And Fiori also totally capable of winning Grand Final.

Lucas: And I think the storyline for Brazil is really, really, really cool because we haven't had a double team of Brazilian team.

Jonatan: But is this like the match that defines who is the best Brazilian Counter-Strike team?

Jonatan: Is that what's on the line here?

Lucas: Yeah, I do think so.

Lucas: I'm not going to this match thinking about it, but I think the whole Brazil community is thinking, now this is the match who is going to define.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: But yeah, for me, I'm really excited to play it because playing against a Brazilian team on a major playoff, and especially playing against Fallen, Caserato, Uri, in a major playoff is going to be huge for me.

Lucas: So I'm really excited and really hyped up.

Lucas: And of course, I want to win.

Lucas: But just by being able to play in it in front of 10,000 people, it's going to be absolute madness.

James: It's going to be full unpacked.

Jonatan: And it also means, obviously, that the Brazilian team is going to be top four.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Actually, on Galahad's stream, they were cheering for that.

Lucas: Because when we won against VP, they were like, Brazil is semi-finalist.

James: Yeah, no matter what.

Lucas: Finally again.

James: No matter what.

James: Is it because of Fallen, obviously, Yuri Quesarato, that Fury gets more cheers for them?

James: Or are they also a bit more with you?

James: Because what I did, I put you guys beating Fury.

James: And I tweeted out the picture.

James: And all these Brazilian fans were like, they were like, fuck you, you think Fallen's bad.

James: You always say Fallen.

James: By the way, I've never said Fallen should retire.

James: But some idiots are like, you said Fallen should retire?

James: I'm like, definitely never said that.

James: And they're like, you don't believe?

James: Watch it, Fallen's going to open this match as well.

James: I'm like, no, he's definitely not.

James: Molodoy is going to open.

James: Brainless fucking idiot.

James: But how is it for you as the player on the other side?

James: You are Brazilian.

James: I think they should cheer for you in some way.

James: But is it just massively Furious still, even when it's not five Brazilian players?

Lucas: Yeah, I do feel like it's more related to the fact that Fallen is in Furious.

Lucas: Because I remember when they had the old line-up with Vini and Art, and they used to play against MIBR from Fallen.

Lucas: Furious was really, really hated.

Lucas: I think that is the fact that Fallen is there.

James: So Fallen carries this still, no matter what team you're on.

Jonatan: I used to be in Fnatic when NiP was the big dogs.

Jonatan: We did not get many cheers even from Swedish fans.

James: You know, in Sweden, they got booed playing at NiP.

James: Even when they beat NiP, they got booed and they were the hated team.

Lucas: Yeah, so I think the real thing is, it's not that people don't cheer for us, but it's...

Lucas: I do think people maybe think that we want to surpass Fallen a certain way or become the new face of Brazil.

Jonatan: I mean, who wouldn't?

Lucas: Yeah, it's a really natural thing, but I think that people don't understand that we don't want to erase or say that Fallen is not longer important, because me being honest, I don't think no one will ever do what Fallen did for Brazil in CS.

James: But it's impossible, man.

James: It's been from when there was no Brazilian CS to rebuilding it.

Lucas: It's really impossible to surpass him, but I think people do take this really serious whenever they see.

James: It's an emotional thing when you're Brazilian people.

Lucas: Because Brazilians are really passionate about their teams in CS.

Lucas: It's a good thing, but I do feel like some people think that, okay, who is this new Brazilian thing who's trying to take the spotlight of Fallen?

Lucas: Because he was the guy who won us the Major.

Lucas: He was the guy who brought us joy, happiness.

Lucas: And I feel like maybe people think like this.

Lucas: And the thing for me is I have nothing by respect for Fallen.

Lucas: And as I said, I don't think no one will ever do what he did for Brazil.

Lucas: But it's a natural process of new people starting to grow up.

Lucas: New people are starting to show up.

Lucas: And new players are eventually going to take his spot from the best software of Brazil, the new Brazil Major Champion, hopefully.

Lucas: So yeah, I do feel like...

James: See, I have to ask you this now, because we asked him on the desk, we said, are you the best Brazilian orper now?

James: He said yes, which is on paper.

James: You are the best Brazilian orper, because Fallen doesn't orp anyway.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: You were better than him when he was orping.

James: If we look at it statistically from the gameplay side of things, right?

James: And there's my wife just appearing on the back of the camera.

James: She's trying to like, ninja, close the drawer.

James: We can't see the drawers open, but thanks baby.

James: But like, we asked you this question.

James: Did you get hate for that answer?

Lucas: Yeah, a lot.

James: No, I'm so sorry.

Lucas: No, no.

Lucas: You mean by this one?

James: Yeah, by saying that because we asked you.

Lucas: I actually didn't have no hate from this, but whenever people start a discussion on Twitter, there's always hate whenever people say, no, it's safe.

Lucas: No, it's nqz.

Lucas: Whenever people don't say Fallen, there's a lot of people who get hurt by this comment.

James: Okay, so I'll put it there because I can say what the fuck I want.

James: For all the Brazilian fans out there, Fallen passed the torch on the AWP already to a Kazakhstan AWPer.

James: Let's start with that.

James: He is the greatest of all time when it comes for Brazilian Counter-Strike.

James: No one's taken that away from him.

James: And even if a player from Brazil won five majors, they won't take it from him because it's all the other things he's done for the scene.

James: But you have to let go.

James: You need to wake the fuck up and accept that there are players who will now be better, who will put up better scorelines, who will do better damage in the server.

James: And if you don't support them, you will only hurt your old scene.

James: So you need to support players like him.

James: Otherwise, you're dumb as fuck because you'll be in an endless situation of hatred that doesn't make anything make any sense.

James: It's not good for your players.

James: It's not good for your country.

James: And if you really care about your country, you can cheer for one player or one team more.

James: But then you still need to give the same love and same support.

James: You can't be that die hard.

James: Like I'm a big Na'Vi fan, but then if they play against, I don't know, who else has got a passion who's got other Ukrainian players on, I'm not going to start going, oh, this is the fake Ukrainian team or some student.

James: It doesn't work like that.

Lucas: Yeah, the point for me is you don't have to hate a team to cheer for the other one.

Lucas: But I do respect all the things that Fallen did, but me as a player and as a competitor, I obviously want to surpass him in terms of titles, of accolades and all that stuff.

Lucas: And that's what competition is all about.

Lucas: But it's a thing that I don't really care too much because as I said in some interview, I don't really bother being seen as the best Brazilian opera.

Lucas: I just want to reach my goals and be recognized as a good opera.

Lucas: For me, that's enough.

James: What's your goals then?

James: Tell us your goals.

Lucas: Oh, my goals.

Lucas: The most cliché one is to win a major, but I do want inside of me to become the next best Brazilian opera after Fallen, because I do think that I have the capability.

Lucas: And I do think Brazil needs to have a new generation of players that are going to inspire themselves.

Lucas: And this is happening with Quesarado and Yuri.

Lucas: And with other players also.

Lucas: But as time passes, Quesarado and Yuri are not as young as they used to be.

James: No.

Lucas: And I do want to be an inspiration for the new generation of CS, because it's going to be really cool and have this feeling, because...

James: And you need this, because that's what's also, like, if you don't have a generation that's inspired by young players, like you, like Bigu, even like Snow, who's young himself, right?

James: How do we see the next young players come up?

James: We need that.

James: There always needs to be a generational swap between it, right?

James: When I was playing football, it was your David Beckham.

James: Now it's your Ronaldo's and your Messi's.

Jonatan: Hurricane.

James: Like...

James: Shut the f*** up.

James: Respect him, but he ain't inspiring anyone.

James: It's not, you know, we can't put this on the same level.

Jonatan: Just to take your own advice.

Jonatan: You don't need to hate on people just because the new generation comes up.

James: I'm just saying.

James: Is there a bunch of people who are going, I'm inspired by Harry Kane.

Jonatan: Of course, man.

Jonatan: England Cap, man.

James: You see this, this is very...

Jonatan: Spurs player.

James: I just mentioned David Beckham, Ronaldo and Messi, right?

Jonatan: I'm a Spurs fan, by the way.

James: That's why we have him.

James: He's a Tottenham fan.

Jonatan: Tottenham fan?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Oh.

James: Yeah, exactly.

Lucas: I used to like a lot of Gareth Bale.

Lucas: I know he's not from England, but he used to play in Tottenham.

Jonatan: Right now, we have Rich Charlies.

James: Do you have a football team you support?

Lucas: Yeah, but I'm not into football that much.

James: Who do you support?

Lucas: Cruzeiro.

Lucas: He's a blue team.

James: Okay.

James: Do you know that one, Devilwalk?

Jonatan: I've heard of them, but I'll be honest.

Jonatan: I have no clue about Brazilian football.

Lucas: I don't even know who plays in my team.

Jonatan: You're too focused on the Counter-Strike.

Jonatan: Which is a good thing.

James: Which is definitely a good thing, for sure.

James: Okay, so you got your goals.

James: We know what you want to do.

James: Before we get to, we got some questions coming from fans.

James: Is there anything you want to say to all the people watching, all the fans of you, all the fans of Brazilian Counter-Strike?

Jonatan: Say in Brazilian, if you know Portuguese.

James: You can say it in Portuguese, yeah.

Lucas: Okay, let me think.

Lucas: I want to thank everyone who is watching.

Lucas: I don't know if there will be a lot of people watching because of Banks' podcast.

Lucas: You're not understanding single shit, right?

James: You have to translate afterwards, man.

Lucas: I don't know if there will be a lot of people watching, but it's been great to chat with him and Devilwalk.

Lucas: As I said, I'm a big fan of people, Not only from the Fury, but mainly from Fallen and everything he did.

Lucas: And I don't think that the fact of new players and the new generation is nullifying anything he did, quite the contrary.

Lucas: Just respect, I don't think that nobody will ever pass what he did for the community as a whole.

Lucas: But that we can also support the new players and understand that we are going through a process that we are no longer the big dogs, We are not the big dogs anymore, but we are fighting to get back to this place.

Lucas: And if God wants to get to a point where we can give you all the same pride, like the Fallen Generation, Code, Phoenix, Fer, Taco, all these people did it.

Lucas: And that's it.

Lucas: Let's start with the beginning, right?

Lucas: Yeah, I'm ready.

James: By the way, it can't be an episode of the podcast My diabetic alarm is going off in the background as well.

James: Okay, give us a translation.

James: What did you just say?

James: I like, by the way, when he said it in Portuguese, Devilwocky?

James: I'm going to start calling you that way.

Lucas: Yeah, because in Portuguese, it's Devilwocky.

James: Okay, okay, okay.

Lucas: We have this accent.

James: Yeah, I like it.

Lucas: Like in English, we call it Banks, right?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: In Portuguese, it's like Banks.

James: You know what, Lemenha and BT call me?

James: They're always, Banksy, Banksy, like the whole time.

James: Whenever they switch into Portuguese and they're talking to the audience, it's Banksy.

Lucas: Yeah, I just told them, really thank you for supporting us and also that stuff from Fallen.

Lucas: I think no one will ever surpass him for what he did from Brazil, but it's a natural process of new people coming in and it's gonna be way better for the whole community that we are supportive with all these players and do not show hate at them.

Lucas: You don't have to hate someone just because you love Fallen and all this stuff.

Lucas: And yeah, we know that we are not in the spot that the people that used to cheer for Fallen used to be watching because they won a lot of stuff in that years.

Lucas: And now we are a long time without the Indian Tournament, but we are working a lot to get in that spot again.

Lucas: And yeah, just be patient.

Lucas: We will get there some someday.

Lucas: And it's unfortunately may not be with Fallen, but we will get there at some point.

Lucas: We'll get there.

James: Got to have that belief, man.

Jonatan: Yeah, I mean, you're only 20.

Jonatan: It's unbelievable.

Jonatan: You're going to have a long career.

Jonatan: You have a long time for you to achieve these things.

James: He's already been doing it for six years since his first professional team.

James: That's what's crazy already.

James: All right, let's start with a viewer questions.

James: I'll ask the first one.

James: So this comes from Gaia.

James: He says, I noticed you don't play pugs very often.

James: Is this because you don't feel they are necessary and prefer to just scrim with your team?

James: Or is it something specific about the NA and Brazilian scene, given that most pro players in Europe play pugs frequently?

Lucas: I actually prefer to play deathmatch or just watch POVs or demos because whenever I play, face it, for example, in Brazil it's impossible to play because people is just running gun.

Lucas: You don't learn anything.

Lucas: You don't get to train anything.

Lucas: For me, it's a loss of time.

James: But you guys don't have face it in Brazil, right?

Lucas: Yeah, we do have.

James: But most people play the other thing, Gamers Club, right?

Lucas: Actually not.

James: Oh, really?

Lucas: Most people are actually playing face it, but as I said, it's mostly running gun.

Lucas: So I prefer...

James: But do you have like FPL in North America?

Lucas: Yeah, we have FPL in Brazil, but the level is better, but still.

James: Still running gun.

Lucas: For me, it's still running gun.

James: How is it still running gun at level 10?

Lucas: Yeah, the thing is for me, I never played in NA, but in Europe, I like to play to play Faceit, but recently I was getting too much stress out of playing Faceit.

Lucas: I just wanted to play like workshop maps or deathmatch that I could chill, listen to some music and not get stressed with the game.

Lucas: Because since we practiced like six, seven maps a day, I was not into playing one more map and having to process all that stuff and thinking and having to stress my head.

James: It's working for you, man.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: It can be good.

Jonatan: I mean, I think like when you're playing like these FPLs and stuff, it's kind of like, if you play a lot, you kind of increase your individual skill, but you develop really bad habits, like really bad habits when you're playing that stuff.

Jonatan: As a coach, it's like, it's one of these things, like it's dangerous for players to play too much.

Jonatan: Then I think it's almost better to play with friends or something, chill face it or something than FPL, because it becomes a very puggy, run and gun kind of style.

James: You said chill face it.

James: It's never chill face it with me.

James: There's no such thing as chill face it.

Jonatan: No, but it's because you can tilt like banks can tilt after like three rounds, full quiet.

Jonatan: It's just like...

James: I stream all my games and everyone sees the visible tilt.

James: It's just that I...

Lucas: No, the CS2 is tilting.

Jonatan: See?

Lucas: Yeah.

James: All right, Devil, you ask the next question.

Jonatan: So our regular Scourger says, Congratulations on making the quarterfinals with Furia and PaIN, the top two Brazilian cores, both going international and find a recent success.

Jonatan: Do you believe other Brazilian-based core teams will follow this pattern?

Jonatan: Has the traditional Brazilian high contract buyout structure forced this decision or is it something else currently preventing five-man Brazilian national teams from succeeding?

Lucas: Yeah, I do feel like maybe some other teams will follow this pattern because it's absolutely related to the buyout stuff because finding options outside of Brazil is being the better option because you cannot buy one player without spending half a million...

Lucas: Oh yeah, half a million dollars or something near that.

Lucas: So it's absolutely crazy and you can see, for example, a lot of organizations are heading out of the Brazilian scene because you can build a team that is actually competitive without spending tons of money.

Lucas: So yeah, I don't know if a lot of Brazilian teams, but I think more than us in FURIA, a lot of more teams will follow this pattern because it's the way that it's working and you can have also good options as you should have in Brazil outside of Brazil.

James: So yeah, I expected that answer.

James: That makes most sense.

James: Yeah, this one, this one's a fun one.

James: This is from the same guy, Skorgree says, can you remember the only other major with more than five Brazilian players in the quarterfinals?

Lucas: Yeah, it was Krakow, PGL.

James: Doesn't forget it.

Lucas: Yeah.

James: Which two teams was it?

Lucas: I'm Immortals and SK.

James: Yes.

Lucas: And this was the sad final for Immortals.

James: Bro, I'll tell you something.

James: After we finish the podcast, and I'll explain to you everything that happened at Krakow, I will tell you.

James: I will give you some insights.

James: That was a fun one to watch.

Jonatan: All right.

James: Next one is you, DW.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: From Risen.

Jonatan: Brazil seems to have a lot of rifling talent, but in terms of awping talent, it's basically only you.

Jonatan: Why do you think that is?

James: I'll say this.

James: He said basically only you.

James: That's a little bit disrespectful to some of the other Orphans.

Lucas: Is that a compliment or?

James: It's like an insult to the Brazilian scene, but basically only you.

James: Like, okay, you're de facto...

James: I think you might not fully know the other Brazilian Orphans.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Yeah, we are actually in a point that we are lacking Brazilian Orphans, but I don't think that we lack talent, actually.

Lucas: We lack...

Lucas: For me, Brazil is in a point that we don't have any land tournaments, and the good Orphans that I know from Brazil can't actually show up for bigger Brazilian teams.

Lucas: So we are...

Lucas: We have good Brazilian Orphans right now.

Lucas: I do feel like safe is really good.

Lucas: I do feel like Trey is not Brazilian, but for me, he's really, really good.

James: But he speaks good Portuguese, all right.

Lucas: Trey speaks better Portuguese than me.

Lucas: So we have Sedzin also and a lot of other good Orphans, but I feel like the Brazilian scene is screwing this up because we are not having that amount of tournaments that people can actually show up.

Lucas: I remember when I was playing there in Brazil, we had a ton of tournaments, so I used to play a lot of tournaments and the bigger teams like 9Z saw me playing.

Lucas: But right now is a really tough moment.

Lucas: So we have talents, but I think they are struggling to appear.

James: Yeah, we need more opportunity to show it.

James: All right.

James: The next one from Jaffa Cast.

James: How did you handle the mental stress during this season, especially with the team experience a week period, many roster changes and health issues.

James: Kind of spoke about it already on the podcast, but you want to go into any more detail on it.

James: Obviously, you didn't give up.

James: That's the main thing.

Lucas: Yeah, we didn't give up.

Lucas: We had this long conversation with the team, but other than that, the mental part, I hired a sports psychologist for me.

James: For you personally?

Lucas: Yeah, for me personally.

James: Do you have one for the team?

Lucas: For the team, no, but I felt that I needed one, so I hired one that I worked back in the zero generation.

James: You paid it yourself?

James: Hats off to you, man.

Lucas: It helped me a lot because sometimes when we are experiencing these tough moments in our careers, we just need someone to talk, but someone that actually understands the terms and the environment that you are inserted on.

James: Is there another Brazilian person who does this?

Lucas: You mean the psychologist?

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Yeah, he's a Brazilian one.

Lucas: He worked.

Lucas: I don't know if you guys know, but you know, the loud organization that won the Valorant Masters.

Lucas: He was their psychologist.

Lucas: So I know him from...

James: That's huge, man.

Lucas: Yeah, from old days, and he's an absolute beast.

Lucas: So he helped me a lot.

James: And that's great.

James: You did that yourself.

James: I'm very impressed.

James: Well done.

Lucas: Yeah, I needed it.

James: Yeah, but you're 20 years old.

James: And do you think that's actually then...

James: I'm going to spin off my own question into this.

James: Is that why we see you become a bit better on a server as well now?

James: You find some consistency?

Lucas: Yeah, I do think so, because I did it exactly after Astana.

Lucas: And after that, I went to Brazil and had all that time to reset.

Lucas: So yeah, and I do think like the mental part in competition is one of the most important parts, if not the most one, because we are exposed all the time to pressure, to traveling to far places, eating food that you don't know is leaping bad.

Lucas: And also all the stuff that arguing with your teammate, you have to stay every day with a person that sometimes you don't get along with it.

Lucas: So yeah, I think it's a really needed thing to be implemented on the teams.

James: You have my respect for that, man.

James: That's fucking big.

James: That's really big.

Jonatan: Yeah, definitely.

Jonatan: I'll probably take three of these questions in a row.

Jonatan: Banks, on the...

James: Yeah, this is from the same person.

James: This is from, what's his name?

Jonatan: Shadow Haunted Dog.

James: What a name.

Jonatan: So, what has been the proudest moment of your career so far?

Lucas: I have to say right now.

Lucas: Going to the major playoffs.

Jonatan: I was thinking about that.

Lucas: Nothing has to be bigger than that.

Jonatan: All right, let's move on to the next one.

Jonatan: If you could steal a skill attribute from any author, who would it be and what would it be and why?

Jonatan: It's a good question.

Lucas: I can steal anything from an author.

Lucas: From any time in the...

James: Yeah.

Lucas: That's a good one.

Lucas: I have so many good authors in history.

Lucas: I'll be...

Lucas: I'll stay as a fan and I'll steal device positioning in his prime.

Jonatan: That's a very good one.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Lucas: And why is because I remember watching his demos.

Lucas: And nowadays you have like bonus for example, he's not always, but a lot of times making some ridiculous shots that you look and you see how does he do it.

Lucas: But I remember watching, and I used to watch a lot of devices demos, and he was like pointing, shooting.

Jonatan: It looks so easy.

Lucas: Fall back, pointing, shooting.

Lucas: So not that it was not his, he didn't have credit for the shots, but it felt like he was always in a good position to take those shots.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: So for me, he was the smart, stable.

Jonatan: He was consistent.

Lucas: He was always in a good position.

Jonatan: Always.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And you can see from his shots that he didn't had to make crazy flicks or stuff like that.

Lucas: It was a shot that he was well positioned.

Lucas: He was in a good spot to make a easy shot.

Lucas: So for me, it was absolutely crazy to watch it.

James: Do you know what I always say?

James: If you want to say, like people say they love Simple, they love Dev1ce, I say Simple is a player you should never try to be.

James: You should never try to do what he does because he feels the game and does some shit that you can't explain.

James: Like I don't go and show you a Simple demo and say, this was the right decision because sometimes you should not make this.

James: But if I wanted to show you how to play perfectly, I would show you all Dev1ce demos and go follow this way for it.

Lucas: Yeah, so I really wanted to spend like a week in his head.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Because the way he played for me was the most beautiful way to play the AWP.

James: Nice.

Jonatan: I fully agree.

Jonatan: Which team from the Major Playoffs would you most want to play against?

Lucas: Being honest with you, I would love to play against the Mongols.

James: Okay.

Lucas: Because all the matches that we play against them is really funny.

Lucas: It's really like we almost ended the match without air because they play a really different style from all the other teams from the playoffs.

Lucas: And all the matches we are always shouting during the rounds.

Lucas: And all of a sudden you get caught up by five players in the same spot.

Lucas: So it's really funny to play against them.

Lucas: And it's a stressful game, but it's always a pleasant game because I think they deserve the respect because they came out of nowhere and they're playing a really good CS.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: And it's always funny to play against them.

Lucas: So I would love to play against them.

Jonatan: All right.

Jonatan: You can take the last two or should I?

James: I can do it.

James: Which player would you most want to play with on a team, including former teammates and those you haven't played with?

Lucas: Let me think.

Lucas: I would love to play with Lato again.

Lucas: Yeah, for me, he's a guy that he showed up great performances in this major, but for me, he was always a not talk too much guy, and underrated guy because I play with him, and he was absolutely crazy as a player and as a person also.

Lucas: So I would play with him again.

Jonatan: Nice.

James: And then, which orper do you think is the most underrated?

Lucas: Underrated.

Jonatan: This is a tough one.

Lucas: This is a tough one from nowadays, right?

James: Yeah, I guess so.

Lucas: From nowadays, let me see.

Lucas: I'm going to go with a weird one, not expected one, but underrated, I will go with James.

James: Okay, yeah.

Lucas: I will also explain why, because when we used to play against VP from James, it was so annoying to play.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Because I felt like the whole team played on his system, and his system was, whatever move you do, you're going to be punished.

Lucas: And it was completely annoying to play.

Lucas: So I missed James in the tier one, and sometimes I felt that he needed to be more aggressive, but the way that people talks about him, I don't think it's fair because he was a good player, and he was really, really annoying to be against in the server.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: I agree with that.

James: He was a beast when it came to MR15.

Jonatan: It's one of those things where you hold an angle, where you know he is for 40 seconds, and he comes at the 45th, and you just lost focus.

Jonatan: Yeah.

James: He walks out like, you weren't ready for me.

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: And I felt playing against them in the old VP, that was that feeling that you never knew what they were going to do.

Jonatan: No, they were really good at that.

James: Yeah.

Lucas: Because the time was passing around, it was like 20 seconds in a row, and you don't even know what they're doing.

Jonatan: You don't even know if they're going for it.

Jonatan: You think they're saving at times.

Lucas: Yeah, exactly.

Lucas: So I think James really underrated.

James: This next question, Devilwalk from Glitch, we've really gone over this.

James: Who inspired you to open style the most?

Jonatan: Yeah, that's a good advice.

Lucas: But I have one more to say.

Jonatan: Okay.

Lucas: Safe.

Lucas: It's a guy that I have a lot of respect, and it's a guy that helped me a lot when I was younger, because he was in pain and he went to FURIA, and I used to talk with him a lot in that time, and I watched basically all his demos.

Lucas: My day was basically watching Device and Safe, because I felt like in that time, not that Safe doesn't play well today, but in that time that he was joining FURIA, I think he was his prime.

Lucas: For me, he was a guy that was pretty similar to Device.

Lucas: He did not do anything extraordinary.

Jonatan: He wasn't a crazy, all of...

Lucas: Yeah, he played...

Jonatan: Safe, consistent.

Lucas: Yeah, he played a correct CS, and I really like people who play correct CS.

Lucas: So him and Device for sure.

James: Nice, that's good to know.

James: Yeah.

Jonatan: All right, what was the most important part of your daily routine that helped you stay locked in during the Major?

Lucas: Actually, I did three stuff all these days.

Lucas: All days I did it the same.

Lucas: I was taking a shower in the morning, listening to music and buying coffee.

Lucas: So every day I did the same stuff.

James: Same routine.

Lucas: Yeah, same routine.

Jonatan: I like that routine.

Lucas: No, not at the same time.

Lucas: And also watching the things that we're going to play.

Lucas: But these three stuff I did all days, the same thing, listening to the same music, buying my coffee and taking a shower.

James: Shower, very important.

James: We don't want smelly gamers.

James: Definitely not.

James: I was supposed to ask you to come for interviews.

James: All right.

James: The last one then, the same guy says, G1 itch.

James: I said glitch.

James: I'm just going to go with glitch.

James: If you could build your all-time CS fantasy team, own any five players, any era, who would you pick?

Lucas: This one is really tough.

Lucas: It's a game that we always play in the team.

Lucas: Oh, this one is really tough.

Lucas: I have to think about roles.

Jonatan: Are you picking yourself?

Jonatan: You don't have to.

Lucas: No, not myself.

Lucas: I will make it all-time, all-time.

Lucas: All right.

Jonatan: So, should I pick a role for you?

Jonatan: And you pick one?

Jonatan: Would that make it easier?

Lucas: It sounds good.

Jonatan: Okay, let's start with an in-game leader.

Jonatan: Who would you pick?

Lucas: In-game leader.

Lucas: Oh, I'm sorry, Fallen, but I will have to go with Glaive.

Jonatan: All right.

Jonatan: Glaive.

Jonatan: Great pick.

Lucas: From Astralis Prime.

Jonatan: Yeah.

Jonatan: Glaive from Astralis Prime.

Jonatan: Who would you pick as the lurker?

Lucas: Am I going to get judged if I choose the whole Stralis brand?

Jonatan: I would take Flush as the lurker, 100%.

Lucas: Yeah, Flush is a good one, but I haven't seen him play so much.

Lucas: But, oh, what is I pick as a lurker?

Lucas: I have to check HLTV for this one.

Lucas: I don't remember...

James: Fire some names that indeed have you.

Jonatan: Well, I would only fire old names, but I mean, Sipniks is not a bad pick at all.

Jonatan: I think he's, you know, obviously...

Lucas: I don't want to go full Stralis, because I could go, but it's way, way obvious.

James: Robz is like a modern.

James: But a good one.

Lucas: I'll go with Robz.

Lucas: Gla1ve Robz.

Jonatan: Gla1ve Robz.

Jonatan: That's a great one.

Jonatan: Who would you pick as your entry fragger?

Lucas: I'm going to go with this one, because from what I seen and from what I heard, Furr was a really perfect guy to play against.

Lucas: So I'll go with Furr, because I really loved the way he played.

Lucas: And from what people told me, he was a complete menace inside the server.

Jonatan: So I'll go with Furr, for sure.

Jonatan: That's also a really, really good pick.

Jonatan: Oper, then, who would you pick?

Lucas: Speaking of all time.

Lucas: All time, all time.

Lucas: I'm a huge fan of Device, but for me, there's no all time team without ZywOo.

Lucas: So I have to go with ZywOo, because this guy is insane.

Lucas: Yeah, I'll go with ZywOo, because Simple is insane also.

Lucas: His pick was completely insane, but for me, ZywOo, the way he plays the game is everything that you see on his POV.

Lucas: It's beautiful.

Lucas: It's different from the thing that you said.

Lucas: Simple always knows, but sometimes he used to do things that are not exactly right, but it went good for him because it's Simple.

Lucas: So in my dream team, I'll have ZywOo.

Lucas: Okay.

Jonatan: Okay, so we have ZywOo, Rops, Glaive, Fur.

Jonatan: And now we need some kind of support player, anchor-ish player.

Lucas: Anchor.

Lucas: My anchor would be Bit.

Jonatan: Bit?

James: Is it Na'Vi Bit?

Lucas: Na'Vi Bit.

Lucas: But the Stockholm one, you know?

Jonatan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonatan: He was insane that day.

Lucas: Yeah, because in Stockholm, what he was playing was out of this world.

James: He wasn't losing.

Lucas: Yeah, it's part of a modern era because I haven't watched too much of the old CS.

James: But that's a good choice.

Jonatan: That's a very good team.

Jonatan: Yeah, it's a very, very good team.

Jonatan: I respect the choices.

Lucas: Without thinking about the language.

Jonatan: Yeah, language doesn't matter.

Lucas: I suppose everyone speaks Portuguese in this team.

Lucas: Let's go.

James: Yeah.

James: All right.

James: So that's the end of our viewer questions.

James: I got one final question for you.

James: You got a lot of ink on you.

James: When did you get your first tattoo?

Lucas: My first tattoo, I think, was when I was 16.

James: What's the legal age in Brazil for tattoos?

Lucas: It's, I think, if your parents, you can do it at any age.

James: Really?

Lucas: Yeah.

Lucas: Any age.

Lucas: I don't know if it's...

Lucas: I don't think any age.

James: Three year olds going for tattoos.

Lucas: Of course, the tattooer will not do...

Lucas: I think 14.

James: 14 up?

Lucas: Yeah, 14 up, you can do it.

Lucas: I did with mine with 16.

Lucas: This was this one right here.

James: The little one there?

James: Yeah.

James: What is it?

Lucas: It's a family tattoo.

James: You want to show it into the camera?